700 replies to this topic

[makoman]

I think they should generally play the positions the way they’re designed to be played. When uber analytics begins changing the fabric of the game, I become less of a fan (of the control analytics has on things). Yes I’m sounding old. I’m okay with that.

But your post is correct. The rules as they are today, you have to do it.

If someone hit the ball right up the middle 20 feet past 2nd every single time and was batting 1.000, even the most Joe Morgan of traditionalists would yell and scream how you can't let him do that. The shift is no different imo, just on a lesser scale. 

 

Players standing where they stand because they decided in 1880 that was the best way to get guys out isn't imo the fabric of the game or how positions were "designed to be played" but that's me. I'm getting old but am very open to disrupting traditional thinking. Hell, I have mostly liked most of Harbaugh's decisions so that will tell you how I feel about these things, and I'm okay with that.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I realize I make a poor argument, but I still feel strongly about it. The shift doesn’t feel right. I hate it.

That said, by my logic there still wouldn’t be passing in football, so I get what you’re saying Mako.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I realize I make a poor argument, but I still feel strongly about it. The shift doesn’t feel right. I hate it.

That said, by my logic there still wouldn’t be passing in football, so I get what you’re saying Mako.

Its annoying. Especially for us that grew up seeing very little to no shifting. The rules say the defenders can play anywhere between the lines. Has always been that way. That rule has been at the heart of the game. But again, it can be annoying as F***. Who knows maybe there will be a shift where hitters at times become more conscious of bat control. Tony Gwynn sprayed the ball around. Not everyone can be Tony Gwynn but spray the ball around enough and teams are going to get annoyed if you can hit .400 against them. Even if it is all singles and they wouldnt all be singles anyway.

[Mackus]

I'm on board with the aesthetic complaints about the shift (and the 4 OF or 5 IF variations).  Just not in agreement with most of the strategic complaints.  Seems pretty hard to argue against that its effective as a strategy for preventing runs.  I also strongly disagree with the argument MLB should make new rules to prevent teams from shifting.

[BSLMikeLowe]

1) Infielders are pretty much expected to field fly balls, no matter what part of the field they are positioned, are they not?

 

2) If we limit where fielders can position themselves, how restrictive do we get with that? Cal famously said on numerous occasions that he would position himself based on the tendencies of the individual batters, often changing spots from one to the next. One on occasion he referred to it as "cheating," but we now know he was simply employing a shift, just not quite as extreme as what we are used to seeing today.

[CantonJester]

Yeah, sending Torres into LF was pretty stupid. I mean, unless Gallo was in a freakin cast, that is. 

 

Almost as stupid as changing the scoring from an E4 to a double. 

[Mike B]

With the trade of Trey, Adley should play first base when he is not catching.  Instead of giving up the DH when we pinch hit for Chirinos, Adley can slide behind the plate.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Adley Rutschman will be the best Orioles player since........?????

[You Play to Win the Game]

Adley Rutschman will be the best Orioles player since........?????

Who cares, it’ll be short lived.

[Mike B]

Adley Rutschman will be the best Orioles player since........?????

Trey Mancini....sorry I could not resist.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Who cares, it’ll be short lived.

Dont hijack my brilliant thought experiment too

[You Play to Win the Game]

Dont hijack my brilliant thought experiment too

Could be the best, decent chance of that. Only thing in his way is longevity due to the position.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I think the answer is Manny but before that Cal. I guess Alomar or Tejada could count too if we are not just talking homegrown guys. My point here is he is a gold standard player for his position in baseball. A top 3-guy at the position over  an extended number of years. 

[Mike B]

I think the answer is Manny but before that Cal. I guess Alomar or Tejada could count too if we are not just talking homegrown guys. My point here is he is a gold standard player for his position in baseball. A top 3-guy at the position over  an extended number of years. 

Home grown, definitely Manny.

[CantonJester]

With the trade of Trey, Adley should play first base when he is not catching.  Instead of giving up the DH when we pinch hit for Chirinos, Adley can slide behind the plate.

You need to carry a third C to do that.

[Mackus]

You need to carry a third C to do that.

 

No you don't.  He's not saying Adley plays 1B every day he's not catching and get no rest, just that he plays 1B instead on the days he is otherwise DH-ing.

 

I don't think it matters much, btw.  There is a deep enough bench to PH if needed if you decide to yank Chirinos and put Adley at DH.  The games don't go deep enough now to be a similar risk as it was years ago.  The bigger risk I suppose is an early-game injury to Chirinos so you lose the DH for 3-4 PAs.  

 

Just for some context, he's been up or 64 games so far.  43 starts at C, 11 starts at DH, 10 days off. 

 

Mike is suggesting Adley play 1B instead of DH those 11 games.  The advantage is if you PH for Chirinos and slide Adley to C, you don't lose the DH andhave to bat the pitcher the rest of the way.  That probably saves you 1 PA every 3rd or 4th game, so not much, but not nothing.  The disadvantage is a bit more wear-and-tear on Rutschman and whatever defensive delta there is between Rutschman and Mountcastle at 1B (may be none or actually an advantage?).  So again not much, but not nothing.  Can go either way, IMO.  I'd probably only worry about it if Rutschman proves to produce slightly less at the plate than when he's in the field, which some guys do.  Hasn't been an issue yet.

[Nigel Tufnel]

It doesn't seem like losing the DH late in a game is ever that big of a deal.  How many relievers pitch multiple innings anyway?  You just pinch hit and bring in a new pitcher, like you would have anyway.  I guess you could theoretically run out of pinch hitters if the game goes long enough, but the runner on 2B seems to have really reduced the likelihood of a long extra inning game.

[Mike B]

I still think having Adley play first, instead of DHing makes sense, and makes it easier to manage at the end of the game.  Mounty can DH and someone like Nevin who is always on the bench, can slide in and play first if Adley goes behind the plate.

[Old Man]

I dislike the shift.

 

However, with that said, I dislike making it a rule by MLB.

 

Let them play ball on the field, live or die by the shift, but doesnt need MLB interference.

[Nigel Tufnel]

It doesn't seem like losing the DH late in a game is ever that big of a deal.  How many relievers pitch multiple innings anyway?  You just pinch hit and bring in a new pitcher, like you would have anyway.  I guess you could theoretically run out of pinch hitters if the game goes long enough, but the runner on 2B seems to have really reduced the likelihood of a long extra inning game.

 

Adley is DH'ing today, so the O's are now guaranteed to lose after Beau Sulser has to hit for himself with two outs and the bases loaded in the 17th inning.