723 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Is it top 2 or Top 3 in the ROY voting that get a full year of arb time?? Doubtful Adley will get into the mix since Julio Rodriguez, Jeremy Pena, and Bobby Witt Jr are all having good seasons but Adley isnt that far off of Witt in fWAR. 1.6 to 1.5. Strong finish could put him in the mix. UNless Im missing someone it seems Joe Ryan is the only pitcher in the mix.

[Mackus]

Top 2

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Damn Witt must be grading out horribly defensively. In rWar he only has 0.7. Adley also has 1.5 rWAR

[Mackus]

Rutschman is on a nice little hot streak.

 

Amongst the 28 catchers with 190+ PA, Rutschman ranks 5th in wRC+ and 5th in OPS.  15th in AVG, 7th in OBP, 7th in SLG, 5th in ISO.  22nd in K% (7th lowest).

 

He's already a very good catcher. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Rutschman is on a nice little hot streak.

Amongst the 28 catchers with 190+ PA, Rutschman ranks 5th in wRC+ and 5th in OPS. 15th in AVG, 7th in OBP, 7th in SLG, 5th in ISO. 22nd in K% (7th lowest).

He's already a very good catcher.

Should be the gold standard for the next 5 or 6 years. That will be huge

[Mike B]

Rutschman is on a nice little hot streak.

 

Amongst the 28 catchers with 190+ PA, Rutschman ranks 5th in wRC+ and 5th in OPS.  15th in AVG, 7th in OBP, 7th in SLG, 5th in ISO.  22nd in K% (7th lowest).

 

He's already a very good catcher. 

In addition to the offensive numbers, His ability to frame the ball should not be understated.  He is very subtle as he brings balls back into the strike zone.

[Mike B]

He also did something yesterday, I have never seen before in almost 55 years of watching baseball.  The damn guy hit a deep fly ball to the left field wall, that was dropped by the , second baseman.  If you did not see the game, I am not kidding.  Stupid shifts.

[Mackus]

He also did something yesterday, I have never seen before in almost 55 years of watching baseball.  The damn guy hit a deep fly ball to the left field wall, that was dropped by the , second baseman.  If you did not see the game, I am not kidding.  Stupid shifts.

 

The Orioles are in the upper tier of using the 4-outfielder shift, at least they were in mid-May.

 

https://www.mlb.com/...utfield-defense

[Mike B]

The Orioles are in the upper tier of using the 4-outfielder shift, at least they were in mid-May.

 

https://www.mlb.com/...utfield-defense

We were sitting there and as Adley came up,I saw Torres jogging out to LF.  I laughed and said I hope it gets hit to him.  As soon as the ball was hit, he was in panic mode, and he dropped an easy fly ball that Gallo would have caught.  Sometimes the stat guys out think themselves.

They initially rightfully so called it an error, but then later in the game they changed it to a hit.

[Mackus]

We were sitting there and as Adley came up,I saw Torres jogging out to LF.  I laughed and said I hope it gets hit to him.  As soon as the ball was hit, he was in panic mode, and he dropped an easy fly ball that Gallo would have caught.  Sometimes the stat guys out think themselves.

They initially rightfully so called it an error, but then later in the game they changed it to a hit.

 

So you're saying that the stat guys were right, in this case.  He hit it right to where they shifted.  There isn't a guy in the league who gets to play that you wouldn't expect to be able to catch a routine fly, so it was just an error.

[Nigel Tufnel]

He hit it toward where Torres was playing (although you wouldn't know it by looking at his route to the ball) but that's exactly why it was a strange alignment.  You have 3 real outfielders - why play your infielder where you think the ball will be hit?

 

I also saw that it would have been a HR in 29 of 30 parks.

[Mike B]

So you're saying that the stat guys were right, in this case.  He hit it right to where they shifted.  There isn't a guy in the league who gets to play that you wouldn't expect to be able to catch a routine fly, so it was just an error.

I am saying it was not needed in this case and in most cases.  Joey Gallo would have easily caught the ball.  He stopped because he was afraid of running into a staggering second baseman who was trying to catch a ball about 33o feet into left field.

[Mackus]

He hit it toward where Torres was playing (although you wouldn't know it by looking at his route to the ball) but that's exactly why it was a strange alignment.  You have 3 real outfielders - why play your infielder where you think the ball will be hit?

 

I also saw that it would have been a HR in 29 of 30 parks.

 

I imagine the actual outfielders were covering the places most likely for the ball to be hit and the infielder was covering the next most likely area.  If not, then I agree.  

 

Obviously all of the shifts are just based on tendencies and expectations.  The alignment isn't a prediction of where the ball will actually go, just trying to have the most likely places covered as best you can.

[Mackus]

I am saying it was not needed in this case and in most cases.  Joey Gallo would have easily caught the ball.  He stopped because he was afraid of running into a staggering second baseman who was trying to catch a ball about 33o feet into left field.

 

So it was an failure of player execution, not managerial strategy.  Sometimes you put the players in the best position to succeed and they still fail.  Or the opposite happens, too, and they succeed despite being handed a bad plan.

[Mike B]

So it was an failure of player execution, not managerial strategy.  Sometimes you put the players in the best position to succeed and they still fail.  Or the opposite happens, too, and they succeed despite being handed a bad plan.

Nice try, but it was IMO an unneeded deployment because it turned  a very catchable fly ball by the normal left fielder into a double because  the second baseman was in the damn way.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I do get not liking shifts by fans. That said, its just incredibly stupid and irresponsible for defenders to not play where the ball is most often hit or for them to be prevented from doing so.

[Mackus]

Nice try, but it was IMO an unneeded deployment because it turned  a very catchable fly ball by the normal left fielder into a double because  the second baseman was in the damn way.

 

Again, if the two professional baseball players don't make a mistake, the shift works just fine.  Every shift is the exact same.  You position your guys to cover the most ground where the batter tends to hit balls.  Sometimes batters will hit the ball where the fielders normally play and instead they'll get a hit.  More often, batters will hit the ball where fielders wouldn't have normally played and instead they'll get an out.  If the latter thing didn't happen more often than the former, then teams wouldn't shift.  Hell, the "traditional" defensive locations are only traditional because teams realized that batters weren't hitting the ball to the bases and instead should play the fielders between the bases.  Its all a shift no matter where you put your fielders.

 

I have no idea if Rutschman or others hit the ball into a 4-outfielder shift often enough for it to be worth doing.  I haven't seen the spray charts.  But the logic is self-evident.  

[You Play to Win the Game]

I do get not liking shifts by fans. That said, its just incredibly stupid and irresponsible for defenders to not play where the ball is most often hit or for them to be prevented from doing so.

I think they should generally play the positions the way they’re designed to be played. When uber analytics begins changing the fabric of the game, I become less of a fan (of the control analytics has on things). Yes I’m sounding old. I’m okay with that.

But your post is correct. The rules as they are today, you have to do it.

[Mike B]

Again, if the two professional baseball players don't make a mistake, the shift works just fine.  Every shift is the exact same.  You position your guys to cover the most ground where the batter tends to hit balls.  Sometimes batters will hit the ball where the fielders normally play and instead they'll get a hit.  More often, batters will hit the ball where fielders wouldn't have normally played and instead they'll get an out.  If the latter thing didn't happen more often than the former, then teams wouldn't shift.  Hell, the "traditional" defensive locations are only traditional because teams realized that batters weren't hitting the ball to the bases and instead should play the fielders between the bases.  Its all a shift no matter where you put your fielders.

 

I have no idea if Rutschman or others hit the ball into a 4-outfielder shift often enough for it to be worth doing.  I haven't seen the spray charts.  But the logic is self-evident.  

Again, sorry you can make the posts as long as you want, but IMO bottom line Boone, put a guy who was not an outfielder in a position he did not need to be in and the play got botched.  I watched the whole thing and Gallo catches that ball easily.  We are not going to agree, so I am done.

[makoman]

Again, sorry you can make the posts as long as you want, but IMO bottom line Boone, put a guy who was not an outfielder in a position he did not need to be in and the play got botched.  I watched the whole thing and Gallo catches that ball easily.  We are not going to agree, so I am done.

I will make it short then: a play not working once doesn't make it the wrong move.