157 replies to this topic

[dude]

We'll probably see soon enough.

[Mackus]

So I was going to put some of this in the Mets thread (the discussion there)...but....do you know what Jeff Wilpon (former COO of a multi-billion dollar asset) is doing today? He has the token title of "Vice President" in his uncles real Estate company (SAP) and he's the owner of the inactive NY Excelsior ESports team.

It may look like greed because of what they need to do, but it's about relevance.

No, it's greed.

They are running the team to benefit themselves and not the fans and team. The benefit needn't be directly monetary for that word to apply. But it is in this case.

[BradJohnson]

Took a few minutes to look up the last team sale with a still-living ex-principal that wasn't related to criminality or incompetence.

 

Looks like it's Drayton McLane. He's still running his businesses.

[BradJohnson]

No, it's greed.

They are running the team to benefit themselves and not the fans and team. The benefit needn't be directly monetary for that word to apply. But it is in this case.

 

Fair point, we're arguing about irrelevant semantics. Self-interest is self-interest whether it's called greed or by any other name. As I said earlier, there's nothing wrong with a little self-interest. But the fans have to hold owners accountable when they get out of line.

[dude]

ok  (nothing to do with my perspective of the conversation)

[BSLMikeLowe]

Owners are always going to be tempted by the easy buck. It is your job as the product users to make sure they understand you won't accept that shit. You, en masse, are the owner's boss. Their job is to give you a nice thing. You pay them some money in exchange.

 

Unfortunately that is not how the economics of MLB are set up. It is set up in a way that the Angelos', and others like them, can make out just fine without the fans giving them a single penny.

[BradJohnson]

When the Phillies cut to the bone, Middleton was publicly embarrassed that the team was making over $200MM in net revenue with a barebones payroll, but that was rebuild path they chose. He said they'd spend the money later. I have no doubt they pocketed most of it, but Middleton's made an effort to buy back into contention even though their rebuild largely failed (Mickey Moniak 1st overall...).

 

The Orioles rebuild succeeded. They need to buy at least one superstar every offseason. Stars help recruit more stars (again, see Philly and Bryce Harper).

[BradJohnson]

Unfortunately that is not how the economics of MLB are set up. It is set up in a way that the Angelos', and others like them, can make out just fine without the fans giving them a single penny.

Yes, I agree this is a problem. I actually tweeted about that earlier today. 

 

There are still things the fans can do to substantially lower the valuation of the franchise via collective action. 

[dude]

When the Phillies cut to the bone, Middleton was publicly embarrassed that the team was making over $200MM in net revenue with a barebones payroll, but that was rebuild path they chose. He said they'd spend the money later. I have no doubt they pocketed most of it, but Middleton's made an effort to buy back into contention even though their rebuild largely failed (Mickey Moniak 1st overall...).

 

The Orioles rebuild succeeded. They need to buy at least one superstar every offseason. Stars help recruit more stars (again, see Philly and Bryce Harper).

Yes, I agree this is a problem. I actually tweeted about that earlier today. 

 

There are still things the fans can do to substantially lower the valuation of the franchise via collective action. 

 

Bolded/underline for the win....

[Mike B]

I might agree that they "raised the floor" but here's the problem I see with that. That doesn't really do much for improving the teams playoff chances. It really just means they don't fall as far behind. We need ceiling raisers not floor raisers;  players whose reasonable expectations would be to be better than average MLB players.

Well said.  I do not like the Frazier move, because I think we overpaid.  When the Orioles offered 8 M, he probably rushed to get a pen.  I think he could be a nice upgrade over Odor, if he reverts back to 2021, but 8 M is still over paying.   The other 3 moves were okay.  Nothing exciting but I could see all 3 being decent contributors.  I was hoping for better than decent.  Grade -  D

[Old Man]

Yes, I agree this is a problem. I actually tweeted about that earlier today. 

 

There are still things the fans can do to substantially lower the valuation of the franchise via collective action. 

Dont you think it was tried, in those 14 dark years of losing baseball and incompetence here  until Andy came and started to right the ship.

[BSLRoseKatz]

Well said.  I do not like the Frazier move, because I think we overpaid.  When the Orioles offered 8 M, he probably rushed to get a pen.  I think he could be a nice upgrade over Odor, if he reverts back to 2021, but 8 M is still over paying.   The other 3 moves were okay.  Nothing exciting but I could see all 3 being decent contributors.  I was hoping for better than decent.  Grade -  D

Yeah I included this in my article but I feels like Vavra could provide most of what Frazier does and whatever he's lacking can't possibly by worth spending 8 million to upgrade

[mweb08]

Yeah I included this in my article but I feels like Vavra could provide most of what Frazier does and whatever he's lacking can't possibly by worth spending 8 million to upgrade

If Westburg is on the roster and they don't trade Urias or Mateo, there's not even a need for Frazier or Vavra on the roster. That said, I'll say something I know many won't agree with, which is I'd rather give playing time to Vavra than Frazier. We don't need either for their defense and Vavra projects to be the better bat in 2023 plus has more upside for next year and beyond.

[Mike B]

Yeah I included this in my article but I feels like Vavra could provide most of what Frazier does and whatever he's lacking can't possibly by worth spending 8 million to upgrade

I think they question Vavra's ability to play 2nd base.

[Slidemaster]

I think they question Vavra's ability to play 2nd base.

I would too. He isn't a good defender.

[You Play to Win the Game]

So that’s it? Vavra is a useless putz, a bust, just like that? Why not try to move him before hand if so? I gotta hope they can find some value for him on this roster. If they don’t at all, that feels like poor resource management to me.

[BobPhelan]

So that’s it? Vavra is a useless putz, a bust, just like that? Why not try to move him before hand if so? I gotta hope they can find some value for him on this roster. If they don’t at all, that feels like poor resource management to me.

I think they still like him but more as a utility guy. Great on base and bat to ball skills, ability to play all three outfield spots and second base. It’s an expensive lesson but feel like he could learn a lot from being around Frazier in 2023.

[mweb08]

I think they question Vavra's ability to play 2nd base.

He wouldn't have to be anything more than an emergency 2B on a roster with Gunner, Mateo, Urias, and Westburg on it.

[BSLMikeLowe]

It’s an expensive lesson

 

I'll say it is. Having an $8 million, no-bat version of Terrin Vavra is pretty extravagant when you have....Terrin Vavra.

[BaltBird 24]

Aside from trading for a RH backup C who can hot LHP, this entire off-season had been a disaster.