157 replies to this topic

[bmore_ken]

Aside from trading for a RH backup C who can hot LHP, this entire off-season had been a disaster.

Pretty much. But don't try to tell that to Elias's cousin on the board. 

[weird-O]

I gave a grade of F.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I would have preferred to have an "incomplete" option. Because he told us what he planned to add to the team, and has yet to do so. But the poll title includes "so far", and so far he hasn't done anything he said he wanted to do, so he has earned zero points, and that is most definitely a grade of F. 

[dude]

I said D+/C- in the other thread ....

I think they raised the floor of the roster to try and fight against regression while keeping enough flexibility to continue to improve. 

 

Maybe we need a new poll, I feel comfortable saying Irvin is the last (meaningful) off-season move unless they get some kind of extensions done.

 

Irvin bumps it up to a D+ for me, so I'm generally where Bob is at here.  

 

We're close to doing what should be considered the minimum, which seems ridiculous to say, given that it's year 5 and they have one of the lowest payrolls in MLB.

[Mike in STL]

Irvin brings them from Incomplete up to an a F.

Put it another way. They are off double secret probation. They are one step above that.

[Mackus]

Still an F for me.  I'd put the number grade in the 50-55 range if we're breaking it down like that. So almost a passing grade for a high school model.  Still not particularly close to earning the credits if we're on a college model. 

[mweb08]

Still an F for me. I'd put the number grade in the 50-55 range if we're breaking it down like that. So almost a passing grade for a high school model. Still not particularly close to earning the credits if we're on a college model.

Same.

[Slidemaster]

Irvin brings them from Incomplete up to an a F.

Put it another way. They are off double secret probation. They are one step above that.

Yup. Feel exactly the same.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

So lets say that Irvin brings up the grade to "the minimum" acceptable. I am old school and minimum acceptable means not failing so D. And that's pretty generous IMO.

[Mackus]

I think they are still below the minimum acceptable off-season.

They still have one or two more bats to add to have at least attempted to check every box (2 SP, 2 positional, utility if, backup C, RP) they could've pursued. And none of the options they've brought in were exactly high quality options for those roles aside from McCann. Gibson and Irvin are passable for the 2nd SP but not the 1st. Frazier is fine for a utility role but not a starter at 2B or LF.

[NewMarketSean]

C

 

i like the additions to sure up the rotation, but I was hoping for more offensive upgrades. 

[Pedro Cerrano]

F-

[bmore_ken]

Still F for me

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I think they are still below the minimum acceptable off-season.

They still have one or two more bats to add to have at least attempted to check every box (2 SP, 2 positional, utility if, backup C, RP) they could've pursued. And none of the options they've brought in were exactly high quality options for those roles aside from McCann. Gibson and Irvin are passable for the 2nd SP but not the 1st. Frazier is fine for a utility role but not a starter at 2B or LF.

There were no FA options at 2b definitevly better or "high quality". I think Segura is better but you could argue against it. Frazier being LH and having more versatility is a plus too

[You Play to Win the Game]

Unequivocal F for me still. Screw it though, 16 days til Spring Training. I’m done with this crap.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

There were no FA options at 2b definitevly better or "high quality". I think Segura is better but you could argue against it. Frazier being LH and having more versatility is a plus too

There was also NO need for a 2B. That money could have been more effectively used getting a better than 2 back end starters. Or a LH bat. They shouldn't get credit because they got someone better than Segura.

[dude]

Again, these comments may be better served in a new thread, but I think about the tiers/grades they could have added for starting pitching (actually each of the areas...SP, RP, OFF, BEN).  The Orioles added a RHSP and a LHSP for 2023 and there were a number of ways people wanted them to go.....

 

A: Verlander and Rodon.  Many wanted the Orioles to be aggressive in this approach.  I don't view this as an A the way others would, but I understand it sitting here today.

 

A-: Castillo and Corbin.  OK, I don't really want Corbin (although I think he'd be OK like a guy like Irvin)...but this would get an A- because it means Juan Soto would be an Oriole and the Orioles would have been adding at the deadline last year.  Skip the negative narratives, compete for the Playoffs and they'd already have been set for the offseason.  Castillo and Soto are ceiling moves.

 

B+: Woodruff and Manaea: This was my preference of all moves.  Put Woodruff at the top and use Manaea as a bridge back to Means, extend Woodruff and Means and you build quality and stability at the top of your rotation for the next 4 years.

 

B-: Bassitt and Heaney:  I think these guy are a sold notch below Woodruff and Manaea.  Give Bassitt a 4th year, Heaney was easy, again, some easy things to do to make a solid improvement 

 

C: I think most of the other players you could pair together would fit in here, any number of fairly easy combinations.

 

D+: Gibson and Irvin.  Modest performers you think you can get more out of.  Maybe it's a C- if you convince me there's something else there.  They can fill a role, eat innings (like Lyles last year) and maybe Gibson has some of the Leadership qualities you want for a younger rotation.  Maybe they perform better than expectations, but that's generally because there aren't a lot of expectations.

 

Grades lower than D+....you could certainly throw some weaker options (not better than what we actually have) together and they would seem dumb.  I'm not sure exploring bad options is useful. Certainly dumber things to do than Gibson and Irvin.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

There was also NO need for a 2B. That money could have been more effectively used getting a better than 2 back end starters. Or a LH bat. They shouldn't get credit because they got someone better than Segura.

Right so everyone wants to bitch and bitch and bitch about not going after vets and "improving the team" through FA but just handing Westburg the job or even Urias is the obvious answer. Its so disingenuous. I havent heard you opine too much on additions or not so this isnt really directed at you btw. Others here bitch all the time about not adding marginal or solid vets at certain positions but add an Adam Frazier and its crap all over that move. And its for no other resason  then they think its cool to crap on everything Elias does in FA

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Again, these comments may be better served in a new thread, but I think about the tiers/grades they could have added for starting pitching (actually each of the areas...SP, RP, OFF, BEN).  The Orioles added a RHSP and a LHSP for 2023 and there were a number of ways people wanted them to go.....

 

A: Verlander and Rodon.  Many wanted the Orioles to be aggressive in this approach.  I don't view this as an A the way others would, but I understand it sitting here today.

 

A-: Castillo and Corbin.  OK, I don't really want Corbin (although I think he'd be OK like a guy like Irvin)...but this would get an A- because it means Juan Soto would be an Oriole and the Orioles would have been adding at the deadline last year.  Skip the negative narratives, compete for the Playoffs and they'd already have been set for the offseason.  Castillo and Soto are ceiling moves.

 

B+: Woodruff and Manaea: This was my preference of all moves.  Put Woodruff at the top and use Manaea as a bridge back to Means, extend Woodruff and Means and you build quality and stability at the top of your rotation for the next 4 years.

 

B-: Bassitt and Heaney:  I think these guy are a sold notch below Woodruff and Manaea.  Give Bassitt a 4th year, Heaney was easy, again, some easy things to do to make a solid improvement 

 

C: I think most of the other players you could pair together would fit in here, any number of fairly easy combinations.

 

D+: Gibson and Irvin.  Modest performers you think you can get more out of.  Maybe it's a C- if you convince me there's something else there.  They can fill a role, eat innings (like Lyles last year) and maybe Gibson has some of the Leadership qualities you want for a younger rotation.  Maybe they perform better than expectations, but that's generally because there aren't a lot of expectations.

 

Grades lower than D+....you could certainly throw some weaker options (not better than what we actually have) together and they would seem dumb.  I'm not sure exploring bad options is useful. Certainly dumber things to do than Gibson and Irvin.

There is no Fing way Soto would be an Oriole today if Corbin was here. Zero. Its nonsense. You should be banned for stating this crap like fact. Taking Corbin wasnt going to get you any closer to getting Soto. 

[dude]

Right so everyone wants to bitch and bitch and bitch about not going after vets and "improving the team" through FA but just handing Westburg the job or even Urias is the obvious answer. Its so disingenuous. I havent heard you opine to much on additions or not so this isnt really directed at you btw. Others here bitch insanely about not adding marginal or solid vets at certain positions but add an Adam Frazier and its crap on that move because you know its cool to crap on anything Elias does on BSL

 

Where you're confused is THIS isn't the time to be adding Adam Frazier.  Frazier is the kind of add (actually ALL of the Orioles adds this offseason) that you should be doing in 2019 to create some similar opportunity to what they have now.  NOW they actually have a guy like Westburg who should be getting the ABs at 2B in 2023 or trade for a buy low guy like Madrigal or something else. 

 

I like Frazier nad think he'll be fine and I don't care about the money, but throwing 8M at a 2.5M move in the wrong year when you already have better options is the issue.

 

The Orioles were never going to compete for the big fish so I don't care that they didn't get one.  I don't want Correa for free. Not interested in Swanson for big money.  I'd pay Trea or Xander....

 

...so the notion we should have done something bigger with the offense doesn't hold much water for me.  I didn't want Abreu. They did the absolute best thing I think they could have done at Catcher. I still think they should realign some assets and there's 2 moves I'd still make today, but they are fringy and more oriented to building the roster I want, not changing the ceiling.

[dude]

There is no Fing way Soto would be an Oriole today if Corbin was here. Zero. Its nonsense. You should be banned for stating this crap like fact. Taking Corbin wasnt going to get you any closer to getting Soto. 

 

What I presented previously is better than what the Nationals got.

 

High School will probably be difficult for you.  Hang in there.