157 replies to this topic

[BSLRoseKatz]

I'd rather have an extended run of annual contention vs one title.

Which is part of the reason I'd be annoyed at giving up extended depth for a quality starter when you could have utilized FA.

I mean for the infield idk how much depth you really need to worry about if you think Holliday is a lock to be a star and Gunnar is too, you really only have room for one of Westburg/Norby/Ortiz long term in that case

[BSLChrisStoner]

I mean for the infield idk how much depth you really need to worry about if you think Holliday is a lock to be a star and Gunnar is too, you really only have room for one of Westburg/Norby/Ortiz long term in that case

You eventually have to make decisions and then push chips in for other pieces you need... and doing so for a SP makes sense...but had you just signed a FA, then you had that additional depth to use to get something rlse.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

For the first time in a long long time (and maybe forever) the O's found themselves in the perfect time to buy scenario.

 

1. Strong core that should get better.

2. Bunch of pieces that are doing very well in the minors and should jump to the O's in 2023.

3. Strong depth throughout the entire minor league system.

4. Extremely low payroll with no long term contracts.

 

So what have they done with this so far? Pretty much nothing. Three moves that are ok but not needle movers. If they won't go bigger when they have a setup like this when will they?

[dude]

If they won't go bigger when they have a setup like this when will they?

 

Again, you (everyone) is making the assumption that Winning is the priority. 

 

I don't really have concerns the Orioles will spend again but it will be after we see what MLB does with transition.

[dude]

I'd rather have an extended run of annual contention vs one title.

Which is part of the reason I'd be annoyed at giving up extended depth for a quality starter when you could have utilized FA.

 

You never have to pick in the real sense..in that, that's never really the choice. That's more of a bar discussion for individual perspective not reality of how winning works.

 

My continual issue with the second sentence is there remains an implication that there's something unique about the Organization at this point.  There's not.  There's no start point or end point to accumulation of assets.  Orioles draft 17th.  They still get to do everything they've been doing.  We don't actually require any of Kjestad, Cowser or Holliday to ever compete.  Release them and we can still compete.  I think there's zero comments on the 17 v top5 thread comparing what we got and what was available in the draft later....might rather have the 17 group.

 

If you are good at drafting.  If you build an international program. If you can develop players.  If you can look out across other rosters and turn straw into gold.  If you can leverage money.  If you have relationships across MLB.  If you have a win now nad win later plan, then why would you ever need to intentionally lose to accomplish nothing wrt winning ever.

 

If the Orioles had won with a mercenary team ini 2019, the 2023 roster could still look exactly the same (whatever you want it to look like)

[Mashed Potatoes]

Again, you (everyone) is making the assumption that Winning is the priority.

I don't really have concerns the Orioles will spend again but it will be after we see what MLB does with transition.

Haha, you idiots thought that running a Major League Baseball team was about winning!?!?!? Grow up!

[dude]

I don't believe we have "Grade the off-season" threads the last 4 years...do we?

 

wrt to 'rebuilding'....that's my point. [The Myth of Rebuilding]

[ivanbalt]

F

 

They were sellers at the deadline despite being in the wild card race.  And then after completing a 31 game win increase over 2021 they supplement their young core with the same scraps they'd pick up when losing 100+ games was the goal.

[dude]

Haha, you idiots thought that running a Major League Baseball team was about winning!?!?!? Grow up!

 

Well, owning a MLB team is largely about ego (and there's pieces that go along with that, discussed some in the Mets thread).

 

Winning is the primary result that gets public gratification of ownership.

 

In the Orioles recent case, I'd suggest the priority is more about retaining ownership.  

[bmore_ken]

Again, you (everyone) is making the assumption that Winning is the priority. 

Actually based on what's been posted, most of us don't believe that. There seems to be only a couple of people here making that assumption.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Again, you (everyone) is making the assumption that Winning is the priority. 

 

I don't really have concerns the Orioles will spend again but it will be after we see what MLB does with transition.

No I nor anybody is making that assumption at all. What we are discussing is what we feel as fans they should be doing. Angelos' own the team and they can do whatever they damn well please.

 

But we don't have to like it or support it.

[BradJohnson]

F makes it seem like they tried and failed. This is a "see teacher" offseason.

 

I can only assume the ownership situation is the reason. Truly embarrassing effort following a Cindarella season.

[BradJohnson]

Again, you (everyone) is making the assumption that Winning is the priority. 

 

I don't really have concerns the Orioles will spend again but it will be after we see what MLB does with transition.

 

Winning is the only acceptable priority for a fan. The owner can sell the "when" of the winning - sometimes it pays off to make a tactical retreat. You should never accept the idea that winning isn't the entire point of the exercise. 

 

Owners are always going to be tempted by the easy buck. It is your job as the product users to make sure they understand you won't accept that shit. You, en masse, are the owner's boss. Their job is to give you a nice thing. You pay them some money in exchange.

 

Since the roster's actually in decent shape, this might be a situation where a vocal objection is better than complete disengagement. Disengaging will only lead the owners to double-down on stinginess. One example, organize a "Sell the Team" night. Fill up the cheap seats, smuggle in your own booze and food, rent buses so they don't get any parking money, then start "Sell the Team" chants all night. Toss in some "F U Angelos" for good measure. 

 

It sounds almost communist, but organization is your friend in this. People just don't have the energy to care enough to do it.

[dude]

Feels like you're having a different conversation than what I was alluding too.

 

Some think the priority should be winning and have certain expectations along those lines that are unfulfilled and lead to poor grade "today" in an assessment of the offseason. 

 

For the Angelos family, it's not winning or greed, it's ownership survival.

[Mackus]

That sounds a lot like greed, to me.

[dude]

That sounds like greed, to me.

 

So I was going to put some of this in the Mets thread (the discussion there)...but....do you know what Jeff Wilpon (former COO of a multi-billion dollar asset) is doing today?  He has the token title of "Vice President" in his uncles real Estate company (SAP) and he's the owner of the inactive NY Excelsior ESports team.

 

It may look like greed because of what they need to do, but it's about relevance. 

[BradJohnson]

The Angelos' aren't concerned with survival. They're focused on in-fighting with occasional moments of clarity when they squeeze the orange for rent.

[dude]

The Angelos' aren't concerned with survival. They're focused on in-fighting with occasional moments of clarity when they squeeze the orange for rent.

 

Frank McCourt sez hi.

[BradJohnson]

Jeff Wilpon was forcibly retired because he participated as a principal member of a ponzi scheme and managed to play it off just enough to avoid trial. He's where he is because he made hundreds of inexcusable decisions over the course of more than a decade. No sane person would let him handle their money.

[BradJohnson]

Frank McCourt sez hi.

 

Another example of a dude whose personal collapse has nothing directly to do with baseball - besides that it helped to publicize it. McCourt stole money from his own team. He's a common criminal.