157 replies to this topic

[dude]

Bunch of wussies still scared of everyone in the division. Not foxhole guys. Lol.

 

Seems like a strange post given that you've been one of the biggest advocates for not caring about winning on this board.

"there's nothing we could do",

"there's no difference in winning 10 more games"

 

I don't have any real issues with the team.  I would have liked them to be more aggressive, but there's still opportunity.  None of that opportunity is from non-competitive behavior.  You could have "this" kind of opportunity in every season and it wouldn't have impacted 2023 or any year in the future. Note that being more aggressive this year wouldn't have had anything to do with non-competitive behavior either.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Seems like a strange post given that you've been one of the biggest advocates for not caring about winning on this board.

"there's nothing we could do",

"there's no difference in winning 10 more games"

 

I don't have any real issues with the team.  I would have liked them to be more aggressive, but there's still opportunity.  None of that opportunity is from non-competitive behavior.  You could have "this" kind of opportunity in every season and it wouldn't have impacted 2023 or any year in the future. Note that being more aggressive this year wouldn't have had anything to do with non-competitive behavior either.

Absolutely ridiculous notion to think they could have this kind of opportunity every season. 

They have a chance this year because they've built a core of usable ML pieces and combined that with high end internal talent they've graduated. 

There was no reasonable scenario where there could have put teams on the field in '18, '19, '20, '21 that had any real viable chance at being anything. 

[Mike in STL]

Absolutely ridiculous notion to think they could have this kind of opportunity every season. 

They have a chance this year because they've built a core of usable ML pieces and combined that with high end internal talent they've graduated. 

There was no reasonable scenario where there could have put teams on the field in '18, '19, '20, '21 that had any real viable chance at being anything. 

I mean, there are scenarios, but they didn't do those things.

 

Off the top of my head if they extended Machado in say 2015 for 10-12 years. If they kept re-loading and kept payroll around 10th-15th in the league, they would have a chance to be something sometimes. 

 

But yes. Going about it the way they did, they purposely had no viable chance at being anything, by choice.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I mean, there are scenarios, but they didn't do those things.

 

Off the top of my head if they extended Machado in say 2015 for 10-12 years. If they kept re-loading and kept payroll around 10th-15th in the league, they would have a chance to be something sometimes. 

 

But yes. Going about it the way they did, they purposely had no viable chance at being anything, by choice.

Had they invested heavily in FA, and used their lower-level prospects to obtain other pieces to help the ML team...  they could have had an improved ML product, and maybe caught lighting in a bottle one season.  I don't think that's a great way to build.  But whatever. 

[BobPhelan]

Had they invested heavily in FA, and used their lower-level prospects to obtain other pieces to help the ML team...  they could have had an improved ML product, and maybe caught lighting in a bottle one season.  I don't think that's a great way to build.  But whatever. 

 

Also Elias didn't have the option to extend Machado. Given what he was walking into I think they did what was necessary. Yes, they could've spent more money to make a more watchable losing product but we've been over that plenty of times.

[dude]

Absolutely ridiculous notion to think they could have this kind of opportunity every season. 

 

This season they've added fringe players to a group of players that were largely already here or a product of the waiver wire.  Adley was in the bag after the disaster of 2018, but the 2018 actually could have been a good team.  They played terrible, but it's not because they lacked Talent.

[dude]

Given what he was walking into I think they did what was necessary. Yes, they could've spent more money to make a more watchable losing product but we've been over that plenty of times.

 

All of the necessary things they did have nothing to do with non-competitive behavior.

 

The reason I keep pointing it out is that there will absolutely be a local and national narrative that "this" is somehow tied to rebuilding.  Nobody wants to talk about it, but fine minutes after you stop pointing it out, those that want to believe it start pointing to it again.

 

You brought up the challenges of the Angels in their thread.  They have struggled terribly to build any momentum with 2 of the best players in MLB history and a full boat of money.  The Dodgers across town have never quit, keep winning pennants, have excellent future opportunity and with the worst draft position still have a top10 MiL system.

[mweb08]

Last season's success did not have a ton to do with waiting on prospects. Adley obviously but not so much otherwise. It was more about hitting on a lot of the type of players that are readily available along with relying on those that weren't prospects, but also already in the organization.

And that success was in spite of the organization not even trying to win.

[Mackus]

If you enjoyed last year, it should make you even more angry of what they'd been doing roster-wise up until then, not less.

 

I don't think we could've built a 85 win team on paper without making some major mistakes in terms of long-term roster building.  I'm not advocating for that.  But they easily could've built 70s win teams on paper which are much more enjoyable than 55-win teams and have a greater chance of exceeding expectations and maybe popping to win upper-70s+ like last year.  So if last year was fun, then I've been right.  If you didn't care about last year at all compared to 2021 or before and thought they were indistinguishable in terms of personal enjoyment, then I've been wrong.

[dude]

If you enjoyed last year, it should make you even more angry of what they'd been doing roster-wise up until then, not less.

 

1 million likes

[BSLChrisStoner]

If you enjoyed last year, it should make you even more angry of what they'd been doing roster-wise up until then, not less.

 

I don't think we could've built a 85 win team on paper without making some major mistakes in terms of long-term roster building.  I'm not advocating for that.  But they easily could've built 70s win teams on paper which are much more enjoyable than 55-win teams and have a greater chance of exceeding expectations and maybe popping to win upper-70s+ like last year.  So if last year was fun, then I've been right.  If you didn't care about last year at all compared to 2021 or before and thought they were indistinguishable in terms of personal enjoyment, then I've been wrong.

Last year was fun to me because enough guys arrived (or are about to arrive) that will comprise large parts of the next team that is capable of winning games that matter. 
 

The Orioles built the correct way, and for those of us 45 and under; they're about to have the most sustained success of our lifetimes. 

 

The only thing that's annoying to me at this point is that for whatever reason (the family dispute, wanting to pocket $, whatever); ownership didn't augment this roster well enough this Winter.  There was an opportunity to do more, they didn't. That sucks. 

 

[Mike in STL]

Had they invested heavily in FA, and used their lower-level prospects to obtain other pieces to help the ML team...  they could have had an improved ML product, and maybe caught lighting in a bottle one season.  I don't think that's a great way to build.  But whatever. 

I think one WS appearance for every intentional losing season would make it worth it. Since thats a long shot with this team, give me trying to contended every year and hope you win a few short series in a row once in a while. 

[Mackus]

Last year was fun to me because enough guys arrived (or are about to arrive) that will comprise large parts of the next team that is capable of winning games that matter. 
 

The Orioles built the correct way, and for those of us 45 and under; they're about to have the most sustained success of our lifetimes. 

 

The only thing that's annoying to me at this point is that for whatever reason (the family dispute, wanting to pocket $, whatever); ownership didn't augment this roster well enough this Winter.  There was an opportunity to do more, they didn't. That sucks. 

 

 

Intentionally losing for nearly half a decade should never be called "the right way".  That's a travesty.

[BSLRoseKatz]

I think one WS appearance for every intentional losing season would make it worth it. Since thats a long shot with this team, give me trying to contended every year and hope you win a few short series in a row once in a while. 

If they went 100-62 in 2023 and 2024, they'd still be 42 games below .500 for the Elias era

[BSLChrisStoner]

I think one WS appearance for every intentional losing season would make it worth it. Since thats a long shot with this team, give me trying to contended every year and hope you win a few short series in a row once in a while. 

I expect they'll make multiple WS before the decade ends. 

And for me, that's how I'll determine the success. 

It has to be more than one championship, it has to be an extended run of excellence.
 

[Mackus]

A championship will justify just about anything, IMO.  All's forgiven if they win one (and certainly more).

 

I'm curious how I'll feel if they have a strong run but fall short.  I don't think I'll forgive the tanking in that case, but we'll see.

[BSLMikeLowe]

A championship will justify just about anything, IMO.  All's forgiven if they win one (and certainly more).

 

I'm curious how I'll feel if they have a strong run but fall short.  I don't think I'll forgive the tanking in that case, but we'll see.

I don’t think a title justifies their years of uncompetitive behavior. It just makes it easier to have amnesia. 

[mweb08]

A championship will justify just about anything, IMO. All's forgiven if they win one (and certainly more).

I'm curious how I'll feel if they have a strong run but fall short. I don't think I'll forgive the tanking in that case, but we'll see.

I'll be ecstatic if they win a singular World Series. However, the problem imo with this statement of forgiveness is that it implies a correlation between the tanking and the future success. That's problematic because dude is largely right imo regarding rebuilding, at least the O's version of it.