144 replies to this topic

[Luke Jackson]

You think Thome's a bench guy?

At 41 with back problems, I think it's a stretch to think Thome will play every day, even at DH.

[bnickle]

I would guess the plan is to play Thome 5 days a week. Listen, we all know we probably aren't contenders but you know what it's fine to reward your fans and the players in the clubhouse with a minor move like this after playing like contenders for half of the season. This does make the big club better and its pretty highly unlikely to come back and bite us in the butt 2,3,4,5 years down the road. I get why people don't like and think it's technically a bad trade but I'm trying to just be a fan too and enjoy my team's longshot run at a playoff spot.

[GlennGulliver]

Thumbs up on this trade. I'm kind of surprised at all the hand-wringing on this thread about the fringy low-upside prospects we gave up. It sounds like the biggest concern is that Thome isn't going to make much of a difference to our playoff hopes, so why give up anything? But even if Thome is not a difference-maker - and I'm willing to say that that's true - the credibility of our organization is at stake. If we want to attract the big talent, we need to put up a .500 season and look like a team that is hungry to win.

[Nuclear Dish]

I also like this deal, as long as his back holds out. I don't think we gave up too much. Lino might ultimately be a major league starting catcher, but there's a very long way to go until that happens.

The concerns about where to play everyone are legitimate. We have too many non-fielding guys, but among them Thome is most likely to hit well. I'd like to see us figure out a way to rid ourselves of Reynolds finally. Thome substituted for Reynolds is a huge upgrade. Then if we can find a guy who can play 3B and still provide the same offense as Betemit, we're in good shape in terms of our lineup, especially once Markakis is back.

Of course, this trade does nothing for our rotation woes, but that seems to be something we will need to handle separately.

[Greg Pappas]

Malewski... http://www.masnsport... ... um=twitter

"I think it's exciting. He's a guy I loved to watch play growing up. I have a lot of respect for him and I'm excited to have him here, not only as a player, but as kind of a mentor. He's been on winning teams," Davis said.
"He obviously knows the game and I've heard nothing but great things about him as far as his character and his personality. He's a class act and we're going to welcome him with open arms. Hopefully he can swing it for us like he could against us."
Davis said he had heard that Thome was a high-character guy that will be a good addition.
"Absolutely. That kind of goes unsaid with as long as he's been around the game," Davis said. "You don't hang around that long, even as good as he is, if you're a bad person. He's played for winning teams and like I said, I've never heard a bad thing about him."

[SportsGuy]

I have always heard Thome referred to as the best teammate in the game.

[NewMarketSean]

Very much MEH on this trade. On one hand. I feel like it's another great player who people will be saying "he played for the Orioles?" Carter, Sosa, Vladimir, Thome...getting a guy well past his prime. It's not what good organizations should do, and, well, we aren't a good organization...yet.

However, if Thome can still mash some home runs he will at least provide a return on what we gave up.

[JeffLong]

Thumbs up on this trade. I'm kind of surprised at all the hand-wringing on this thread about the fringy low-upside prospects we gave up. It sounds like the biggest concern is that Thome isn't going to make much of a difference to our playoff hopes, so why give up anything? But even if Thome is not a difference-maker - and I'm willing to say that that's true - the credibility of our organization is at stake. If we want to attract the big talent, we need to put up a .500 season and look like a team that is hungry to win.

A few things here I don't agree with.

I would say Lino is a very high upside guy, albeit with a low chance of reaching that upside. He's not just some "fringy low-upside prospect" as you say.

Also, money attracts big free agents. Not being .500. Not having been to the playoffs. Those things matter if two teams offer the same money and they have to choose. But if we offer a big free agent say 6/100 and his next best offer is 6/90 he'll take our offer 9 times out of 10.

[Chris B]

Don't get me wrong, Im really excited to see a future Hall of Gamer in the O's lineup. I just don't like the trade because I don't thunk it really fills a big need.

This team needs a starter more than anything.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I have always heard Thome referred to as the best teammate in the game.

Melewski via the twitter:

JJ Hardy played with Thome in 2010 - "He's that superstar that acts like everyone else. He's friends with everyone. The perfect teammate."

[AgentOrange]

I am not shocked people hate this trade. We over value our prospects. The fact we let Lino go for Thome tells me that they have legit concerns with this guy. He is struggling at A and if he has issues with working hard at his craft, he probably will never see the majors.

And Simon is a BP arm. Who cares?

[JeffLong]

I am not shocked people hate this trade. We over value our prospects. The fact we let Lino go for Thome tells me that they have legit concerns with this guy. He is struggling at A and if he has issues with working hard at his craft, he probably will never see the majors.

And Simon is a BP arm. Who cares?

Where did that come from?

[JeremyStrain]

I am not shocked people hate this trade. We over value our prospects. The fact we let Lino go for Thome tells me that they have legit concerns with this guy. He is struggling at A and if he has issues with working hard at his craft, he probably will never see the majors.

And Simon is a BP arm. Who cares?

Don't care about Simon, but those top Intl prospects usualy start just like Lino, then they develop and push through. Dislike adding another DH enough that I have a problem giving up a high ceiling, up the middle prospect. If it were in a package for a decent SP I wouldn't have complained. Seems like a move just for the sake of making a move. Maybe he proves me wrong, but at the end of the season I doubt thome has really influenced our season much.

[SportsGuy]

I have zero issue trading Lino.

I don't agree with trading him for Thome.

[hallas]

Right...of course, now the defense really blows.

Right. It's just that in this scenario, the defense blows and we might have a chance of catching some offense with Thome. Without him, our defense blows and we still suck on offense. We could keep X on board for a 7th inning defensive replacement.

I would imagine that Andino would see time at 3rd, Betemit to 1st, and Reynolds to DH whenever we face a lefty.

[RichardZ]

Been in the minority at another place but glad to see a more even split here. HORRIBLE TRADE!!!!

Thome won't make much difference on a team headed nowhere. We won't make the moves that really need to be made (starting pitching) because we won't give up what it will take to get it. Lino and Simon probably don't amount to much but Lino has upside and Simon has an arm. Both are just starting out. Prospects rise and fall every year. There is no reason to deplete your prospect inventory for a minor upgrade (if that) on a team with no chance. No chance! Yes. Does anyone really think we can finish ahead of Tampa, Boston, the Angels and the Rangers? Get realistic people! We had a good first half. The balloon is bursting. The starting pitching is a mess and that's if Hammel's knee holds together. If that goes, it gets even uglier. Meanwhile Tampa's rotation is stacked and healthy, the Angels have shaken off their slow start and Boston is starting to get players back. The clock has struck 12!!!

[Mackus]

I like targeting Thome, but I don't think we had to give up the guys we did. Probably not guys who will amount to much, similar to the Teagarden and Eveland trades, but I don't like giving up respectable third-tier prospects for a 3-month rental, and one limited to DH at that.

It'll be cool to see Thome in an O's uniform, though.

[DJ MC]

I like targeting Thome, but I don't think we had to give up the guys we did. Probably not guys who will amount to much, similar to the Teagarden and Eveland trades, but I don't like giving up respectable third-tier prospects for a 3-month rental, and one limited to DH at that.

It'll be cool to see Thome in an O's uniform, though.

That's who you should be looking to give up third-tier prospects for. You can't get anyone else using them except as throw-ins along with better talents, and the production you get now is likely to be more than the production those guys provide eventually.

Plus, even an organization like the Orioles has enough of those guys in the system and coming in every year that they are replaceable.

[RichardZ]

That's who you should be looking to give up third-tier prospects for. You can't get anyone else using them except as throw-ins along with better talents, and the production you get now is likely to be more than the production those guys provide eventually.

Plus, even an organization like the Orioles has enough of those guys in the system and coming in every year that they are replaceable.[/quote]


I keep seeing this. Sure, as prospects they are replaceable. However, if you have 20 legit prospects like Lino and Simon (these are not organizational filler but guys with real talent) one or two will make it. We don't know if Lino and Simon are amongst the ones who surprise and improve their prospect status and even become productive ML players or are amongst the majority who never make it at all or have insignicant ML careers. To suggest that you just easily replace these guys with two more is just wrong. A team like the Orioles should be building up inventory like this to increase their odds, not trading it for a minimal short term gain that means nothing. The production we get now from Thome even if it's better than we would have gotten with Davis, Reynolds, or Betemit at DH, which is debatable, will only slightly improve the record of a 4th or 5th place team. If that's the goal, I'm not real excited by it. Even if it's not the goal, it's the reality.

Prediction: With increased playing time, Thome shows that he's close to the end and has a sub .800 OPS with the O's. He also forces Betemit, Reynolds, and Davis all into the field with gloves on, which is scary. Offense not improved much, if at all, defense weakened. Of course, this prediction has nothing to do with the trade being horribly wrong on principle alone.

[DJ MC]

I keep seeing this. Sure, as prospects they are replaceable. However, if you have 20 legit prospects like Lino and Simon (these are not organizational filler but guys with real talent) one or two will make it. We don't know if Lino and Simon are amongst the ones who surprise and improve their prospect status and even become productive ML players or are amongst the majority who never make it at all or have insignicant ML careers. To suggest that you just easily replace these guys with two more is just wrong.

No it isn't. If you own a bunch of stock in upstart companies and have the opportunity to purchase some in a solid-performing corporation, you don't lay off selling simply because one of those businesses may one day become the next Microsoft or Google. If you have a specific reason to think that, you don't sell that stock, but using that as a general rule makes you lose out on better opportunities.

A team like the Orioles should be building up inventory like this to increase their odds, not trading it for a minimal short term gain that means nothing. The production we get now from Thome even if it's better than we would have gotten with Davis, Reynolds, or Betemit at DH, which is debatable, will only slightly improve the record of a 4th or 5th place team. If that's the goal, I'm not real excited by it. Even if it's not the goal, it's the reality.

We keep assuming it is a guarantee that this team will finish under-.500 and in last place. We also have three months of evidence that suggests they have a good chance of doing better than that. Why shouldn't we as fans expect the team to try and do something to take advantage of the opportunity that has presented itself? This doesn't have to be anywhere near the either/or proposition of over-optimism causing a talent drain to tilt at windmills and over-pessimism sucking all of the fun and interest out of this season by taking the lowest possible view of the team.

Prediction: With increased playing time, Thome shows that he's close to the end and has a sub .800 OPS with the O's. He also forces Betemit, Reynolds, and Davis all into the field with gloves on, which is scary. Offense not improved much, if at all, defense weakened. Of course, this prediction has nothing to do with the trade being horribly wrong on principle alone.

Why do you think that about Thome? Have you seen him hit more than a couple plate appearances today? Is there a scouting report we haven't seen? Is there something other than the fact that he is 41 that leads you to make that prediction?