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#101 Mackus

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:52 AM

One thing that makes me not worry too much about the pieces we gave up for Thome is that, if we fall out of the race by July or even August, we can probably trade Thome again. We likely wouldn't get back the same value, but should be able to get close to it unless Thome really starts struggling.

I also feel like everybody would feel a lot better about this trade if we were currently 8-9 games over .500 instead of just 5. If this slide continues, then obviously it was a move that we should've have made, but if we get out of the funk and look like we've got better odds of contending, then it's a worthwhile move.

The next 7 games before the All-Star break are very important. Going 5-2 sends the team into the break on a positive note, sitting 8 games over .500. Going 2-5 sends them to the break in a full blown tailspin just 2 games over .500.

#102 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:58 AM

The next 7 games before the All-Star break are very important. Going 5-2 sends the team into the break on a positive note, sitting 8 games over .500. Going 2-5 sends them to the break in a full blown tailspin just 2 games over .500.


Yea, it really is vital to have a good week this week. Unfortunately, we draw King Felix in Seattle and then WIlson and Weaver in Anaheim, as well as 24 yr old Garrett Richards who has been pitching really well for them too. So it's going to be tough sledding, but on a bright note, we have Hammel and Chen pitching twice each over the next 7, so that should help matters.

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#103 SammyBirdland

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:50 AM

On a side note, I think this should be Jim Thome's official home run trot video:

jjy_7haflaM

That might actually be footage of him from elementary school :lol:
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#104 SportsGuy

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:05 PM

http://www.fangraphs... ... e-orioles/

#105 Slappy

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:13 PM

Bit late here, but DD's statement about replacing Simon/Lino is interesting. Look, he and Ferreria pulled Miguel Gonzalez and Stu Pomeranz out of nowhere, not to mention Chen. All 3 of those guys have provided major league value right away. I have little doubt they can continue to find guys like those. So losing Lino, big deal. Guy was struggling bad at low A and has been rumored to be both older than 19 and possessing a poor work ethic.

Ultimately, if Thome gives you 0.5 WAR in 4 months, there is a pretty good chance that will be more than Simon and Lino offer in their entire careers.
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#106 SportsGuy

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:16 PM

Bit late here, but DD's statement about replacing Simon/Lino is interesting. Look, he and Ferreria pulled Miguel Gonzalez and Stu Pomeranz out of nowhere, not to mention Chen. All 3 of those guys have provided major league value right away. I have little doubt they can continue to find guys like those. So losing Lino, big deal. Guy was struggling bad at low A and has been rumored to be both older than 19 and possessing a poor work ethic.

Ultimately, if Thome gives you 0.5 WAR in 4 months, there is a pretty good chance that will be more than Simon and Lino offer in their entire careers.

I hate this as a justification to make a deal. It means nothing.

We could trade Bundy for Garza and Garza may give us more WAR than Bundy ever does. Does that mean we should make the deal?

End of the day, you make deals that make sense for you...this one doesn't.

#107 Slappy

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:22 PM

I hate this as a justification to make a deal. It means nothing.

We could trade Bundy for Garza and Garza may give us more WAR than Bundy ever does. Does that mean we should make the deal?

End of the day, you make deals that make sense for you...this one doesn't.


A bit of an extreme comparison. You have to go with the odds. Given the talent level and years of control, there is a very good chance that Bundy provides more WAR per buck over his time with the Orioles than Garza would. By the justification parameters alone I would not make that deal.

That said, I do agree that the Thome acquisition makes little sense in a vacuum given the make-up of the team. If DD doesn't follow it up by moving Reynolds or Betemit or pitching, I'm not sure the deal was worth it.
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#108 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:47 PM

Which of the people that hate this trade oh-so-much could pick Simon or Lino out of a lineup of 10 minor league ballplayers?

Be honest.

There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

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#109 SportsGuy

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:49 PM

Which of the people that hate this trade oh-so-much could pick Simon or Lino out of a lineup of 10 minor league ballplayers?

Be honest.

I have seen pictures of each but dont remember their faces. Of course, that has nothing to do with their stats or potential upside.

#110 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:51 PM

This is once again a case of people flipping out over a trade that, likely, will mean close to nothing in the future.

But, it's cool to hate trading prospects, so that's what we do.

There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

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#111 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:59 PM

Still without power at my place, so I'm down at my Dad's. I'll admit to not reading through the thread itself. With 110 posts on this, I'm sure my thoughts have been represented elsewhere.

I'm sure Thome will help the lineup. Even at his age, he still has power and the ability to take a walk. I'm a bit puzzled as to the lineup the O's are picturing after Markakis returns. I can only assume that the O's are thinking about having Davis in LF (even though he has said he is more comfortable in RF).

DH Thome
1st Reynolds
LF Davis
3rd Betemit

Clearly Johnson has to be cut when he comes off the DL.

I'm a little surprised that it took Lino and Simon to get Thome, but I can accept that being the going rate. I don't mind trading either one. I do think that I would have preferred to attempt to use them as additional pieces as part of a larger move.

Clearly, if you are going to make this move for Thome, you are probably considering additional moves. I'm more comfortable with giving up Lino and Simon, if you now make another move now to improve the rotation.

#112 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:53 AM

Yahoo: Thome, he of 600 home runs, loves baseball so much it's infections to his Orioles teammates
http://sports.yahoo....-teammates.html

#113 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:35 AM

This is why they traded for Thome and why I think its unlikely they deal him before the trade deadline. They could deal him at the end of August though but if the Orioles are hanging in there and have a chance to be a 500 team or better, they will want his steadying influence around the team.

#114 Oriole85

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:50 AM

This is why they traded for Thome and why I think its unlikely they deal him before the trade deadline. They could deal him at the end of August though but if the Orioles are hanging in there and have a chance to be a 500 team or better, they will want his steadying influence around the team.

I want to win and all and I'd rather win 82 games than 80 but are we really just going to keep someone around with the soul purpose of not having a losing season when the playoffs are out of the question?
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#115 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:59 AM

I want to win and all and I'd rather win 82 games than 80 but are we really just going to keep someone around with the soul purpose of not having a losing season when the playoffs are out of the question?

I think what Thome brings to the lockerroom is why they got him and I could see them wanting to keep that influence around...we are assuming that teams will even want him. His market is limited since he can't really play the field.

#116 SammyBirdland

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:04 AM

I think what Thome brings to the lockerroom is why they got him and I could see them wanting to keep that influence around...we are assuming that teams will even want him. His market is limited since he can't really play the field.



I'm patiently waiting for the effects of his locker room presence to kick in ;)
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#117 Mackus

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:07 AM

I want to win and all and I'd rather win 82 games than 80 but are we really just going to keep someone around with the soul purpose of not having a losing season when the playoffs are out of the question?

It's not like Thome will have any meaningful value.

When we acquired him, somebody posted all the times Thome has been traded in recent years. Each time was for one very, very fringey prospect. Those were all August waiver deals. We gave up more because we got him in June and he was making less money (and because Duke over paid).

I don't have a problem with keeping Thome if the only thing we could get back for him is some guy none of us have ever heard of and with 99% likelihood won't ever make even a minor impact at the MLB level. He's not taking at bats away from any young guys who should be receiving them and as SG said he's reputed to be as good of a clubhouse guy as there can be.

#118 fishteacher

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:13 AM

I'm patiently waiting for the effects of his locker room presence to kick in ;)


As much as I truly love what Jim Thome is all about (being a true professional), I wish we could go get a guy with speed who can get on base...Why are we not in on the Flyin' Hawaiian? Go get someone who can lead off...Markakis should be hitting 2nd..
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#119 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:14 AM

As much as I truly love what Jim Thome is all about (being a true professional), I wish we could go get a guy with speed who can get on base...Why are we not in on the Flyin' Hawaiian? Go get someone who can lead off...Markakis should be hitting 2nd..

1) Victorino is a FA after this season..what good is he for us the rest of this year?

2) Why should NIck bat second over leadoff?

#120 Chris B

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:30 PM

I really disliked the trade when it was announced 2-3 weeks ago. Even though it is still questionable, I just really like what I've seen from Thome the person. I always knew him for mashing clutch home runs, but he really seems like a genuine guy.

No doubt in my mind he'll be a manager after his playing career ends.




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