205 replies to this topic

[Chris B]

Reds fired Bryan Price and their pitching coach this morning.

 

Jim Riggleman is interim manager.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Riggleman's the guy who they said would never manage again, right?

[Mike in STL]

One team gets it. When you suck, someone takes the fall. 

[SBTarheel]

This makes no sense to me, I mean, why not fire him after last season. They knew they were going to be terrible this year. 

 

not cool. 

 

I assume Barry Larkin gets this gig eventually. 

[SportsGuy]

This makes no sense to me, I mean, why not fire him after last season. They knew they were going to be terrible this year. 

 

not cool. 

 

I assume Barry Larkin gets this gig eventually. 

I will take Farrell in that race

[Mike in STL]

This makes no sense to me, I mean, why not fire him after last season. They knew they were going to be terrible this year.

not cool.

I assume Barry Larkin gets this gig eventually.

Reds are so unclassy. Firing him during the season? Lol.

[SBTarheel]

Reds are so unclassy. Firing him during the season? Lol.

Not unclassy, just dumb. They didn't know until 18 games in that they weren't good?

Either do it after last season, or don't.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I still can't believe that the O's fired Cal Ripken Sr. six games into the 1988 season.  What a bunch of morons. 

[Mike in STL]

Not unclassy, just dumb. They didn't know until 18 games in that they weren't good?

Either do it after last season, or don't.

I get it. I was poking at the Buck love affair that firing him in season would be so classless. Cincy only lost 7 more games than the O's. With way worse of a team. Maybe the Reds FO wanted to see improvement and after winning just 3 games, 2 less than the O's, Ownership saw it wasn't going to happen.

 

I wish the O's brass had the same outlook. You gave a leash, you look for improvement, it isn't there, what's next? More leash, apparently. 

[SBTarheel]

I get it. I was poking at the Buck love affair that firing him in season would be so classless. Cincy only lost 7 more games than the O's. With way worse of a team. Maybe the Reds FO wanted to see improvement and after winning just 3 games, 2 less than the O's, Ownership saw it wasn't going to happen.

 

I wish the O's brass had the same outlook. You gave a leash, you look for improvement, it isn't there, what's next? More leash, apparently. 

I think the "Fire Buck" talk is insane personally, but I don't think it has anything to do with being classy or not. The Orioles were .5 out on Labor Day last year before the collapse. The Reds have been terrible since Price got there (no idea if it's his "fault" or not, but the record is the record). With all due respect, comparing Bryan Price to Buck Showalter is not even worth a discussion. 

 

I just can't figure what they expected to see, and on the other hand, how 18 more games (adding to the last few years of "rebuilding") means anything in terms of the worth of Price as the manager. 

 

They traded, Cueto, Frazier, Chapman, Bruce, Choo, Philips, Leake and i'm sure others I can't recall over the last few years..I can't imagine they expected to win anytime soon, especially in that division. 

[Mike in STL]

I think the "Fire Buck" talk is insane personally, but I don't think it has anything to do with being classy or not. The Orioles were .5 out on Labor Day last year before the collapse. The Reds have been terrible since Price got there (no idea if it's his "fault" or not, but the record is the record). With all due respect, comparing Bryan Price to Buck Showalter is not even worth a discussion. 

 

I just can't figure what they expected to see, and on the other hand, how 18 more games (adding to the last few years of "rebuilding") means anything in terms of the worth of Price as the manager. 

 

They traded, Cueto, Frazier, Chapman, Bruce, Choo, Philips, Leake and i'm sure others I can't recall over the last few years..I can't imagine they expected to win anytime soon, especially in that division. 

They were also 2 games over .500 on labor day. It was a very down year for the AL, which they O's needed to take advantage of. 

 

Overall, I agree with you. 

 

I get that Bryan Price can't hold Buck's jock strap. I'm not going to pretend to know the intricacies of how the Reds work. But on paper they aren't as bad as their record suggests, IMO. Which sounds like another team we know very well. They have a handful of solid players. They have a handful of guys they probably expected more out of during this rebuild that haven't brought it. A giant hole at 1st base that shouldn't be. This all sounds like the Orioles except the Orioles are better on paper but only slightly better in record.

 

Maybe they weren't happy with young players development in what they got in those trades. Expected Price to do more with the building blocks. Maybe they don't want Price touching Nick Senzel who looks like a prized possession they want to get into the fold soon. 

 

Maybe they should have fired Price in the offseason. Sure. Maybe they wanted to give him a spring with young guys, see if he turns water in to wine, see if his process played out, it didn't, theres the door.  Maybe the Orioles should have fired Buck in the offseason too. I would have done it before he left the locker room at Skydome in October 2016. But thats just me.  

 

Maybe Price having been a coach there since 2010, managing since 2014, was given too long a leash. Maybe because of how loyal he had been to the team they were hesitant to can him too soon after he wasn't cut our for the job. Hell. Buck will be here screwing up ball games for 10 more years if the Orioles want to give a long leash for tenured guys. 

[SBTarheel]

Not to derail the elusive Reds thread, but you truly believe the Orioles would be  better off without Showalter than with him?

 

As for the Reds, they clearly made a decision to rebuild when they fired Dusty (who made the playoffs almost every year he was there) and start trading guys. With the improvement of the Cubs/Brewers/Pirates at the time and the consistency of the Cardinals, I have to assume expectations weren't high.

[Mike in STL]

Not to derail the elusive Reds thread, but you truly believe the Orioles would be  better off without Showalter than with him?

Depends on the replacement. I'm not in a position to say who that should be. 

 

Better off than 5-14? Better off than the 43-119 record they're on pace for? Better than the 67-95 they have gone in the last 162 games? Yeah. I think so. 

[SBTarheel]

Depends on the replacement. I'm not in a position to say who that should be. 

 

Better off than 5-14? Better off than the 43-119 record they're on pace for? Better than the 67-95 they have gone in the last 162 games? Yeah. I think so. 

Trea would be the replacement!! How about that!!! 

 

All kidding aside, I  have to believe they'll be better sooner than later, but even if god forbid we finish 43-119, I still say Buck should be able to leave on his own terms. 

[bnickle]

Trea would be the replacement!! How about that!!!

All kidding aside, I have to believe they'll be better sooner than later, but even if god forbid we finish 43-119, I still say Buck should be able to leave on his own terms.

I swear I would buy a 20 game season plan for the rest of the season if they hired Trea to coach

[Mike in STL]

Trea would be the replacement!! How about that!!! 

 

All kidding aside, I  have to believe they'll be better sooner than later, but even if god forbid we finish 43-119, I still say Buck should be able to leave on his own terms. 

If Buck should be able to leave on his own terms then they need to have extended him already. If they let him stay the course of the year and say we're not extending you after season ends, what was the point? Looks better in the public eye? That's nice, but it doesn't win you games. 

[SBTarheel]

If Buck should be able to leave on his own terms then they need to have extended him already. If they let him stay the course of the year and say we're not extending you after season ends, what was the point? Looks better in the public eye? That's nice, but it doesn't win you games. 

Fair. 

 

Obviously Duquette is going to leave one way or another, and I've heard Buck wants to stay even if it's a total rebuild. My opinion is that he's accomplished enough (yes, i understand  expectations are bigger now because of '12,'14, and '16) that he should be able to leave on his terms. I don't mean to be melodramatic, but I really feel like he almost "saved" the franchise back in '11, and we owe him at least the respect of letting him go out his own way, or stay until he's ready. 

[Chris B]

Jeremy Frank‏ @MLBRandomStats 8h8 hours ago

More

This could be my favorite stat, ever... Joey Votto pop ups by year:

2010 - 0

2011 - 1

2012 - 1

2013 - 1

2014 - 1

2015 - 2

2016- 0

2017 - 1

2018- 0

Since 2010, Votto has popped it up 7 times. With the same amount of PA, the MLB average player would have popped it up 127 times.

 

This is a WILD stat. Obviously Trout and Beltre are up there, but Votto has to be in the conversation for most underrated baseball player too.

 

[SportsGuy]

How is that even possible?

[Mackus]

That's incredible.  Votto is a stud. 

 

Paul Goldschmidt is another incredibly underrated guy.  Why does everyone ignore the NL first basemen?  Rizzo probably gets more love than anyone else and he's like the 5th best guy.