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BSL: Mussina Passes Every Hall of Fame Evaluation Method


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#161 BobPhelan

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 11:24 PM

My favorite pitcher of all time, hope he picks the Orioles cap.

#162 SportsGuy

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 11:25 PM

Olney:

Mussina and the plaque cap question:
Orioles: 288 games, 2009 2/3 innings, 3.53 ERA.
Yankees: 249 games, 1553 innings, 3.88 ERA.
Drafted by the Orioles; left Baltimore and chose to sign with the Yankees.
HOF has final say; it'll usually work with HOFer for these choices.

#163 mweb08

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 11:33 PM

For whatever it's worth, O's fans probably care about this a lot more than Yankees fans.

Most of Yankee fans caring is most likely of a petty nature, meaning they would like him to wear the Yankees hat just to aggravate O's fans.

#164 Mike in STL

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 12:15 AM

Does Moose get a statue at Camden Yards, if he picks the Orioles.

The Yankees could put him in Monument park too.

Maybe it is just me, but Moose seems more fitting with a statue in Oriole Park.



Yankees put everyone in Monument Park. Pretty sure Scott Brosious is out there somewhere.
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#165 Mackus

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:13 AM

Olney:

Mussina and the plaque cap question:
Orioles: 288 games, 2009 2/3 innings, 3.53 ERA.
Yankees: 249 games, 1553 innings, 3.88 ERA.
Drafted by the Orioles; left Baltimore and chose to sign with the Yankees.
HOF has final say; it'll usually work with HOFer for these choices.

 

I'm certain that Mussina will get to pick which hat he wants to wear, the arguments for either side are reasonable, so they'll go with whatever he wants.

 

I hadn't considered a Greg Maddux approach before.  That sounds like something Moose might do.



#166 Hooded Viper

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:29 AM

We all know damn well he will go in as a Yankee.  I am hoping he would rather go in as an O simply because we have far fewer HOF's than the Yanks but I doubt it.



#167 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:30 AM

I think the blank hat is the most likely outcome here.



#168 Mackus

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:31 AM

I don't damn well know that.  Possible, but far from a given, IMO.  I'm not even sure if it's likely.  I think it's a tossup.  Hopefully Moose doesn't do much listening to the fans here that tell him to go to hell.



#169 Hooded Viper

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:34 AM

I don't damn well know that.  Possible, but far from a given, IMO.  I'm not even sure if it's likely.  I think it's a tossup.  Hopefully Moose doesn't do much listening to this fans here that tell him to go to hell.

 

Haha fair enough.  Hell I heard Frank hated Cincinnati for trading him and he went in with their cap.  I never understood the Moose hate, he went to a winning team that paid him the most, after pleading with PA to give him a contract. If anything he was loyal to a fault and that was when George was alive so the Yanks spent more money than anyone else.  Whoever blames him is crazy.



#170 ivanbalt

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:38 AM

Not gonna argue bWAR is the best stat to look at for something like this, but it's a decent one.

 

Moose trails all of the others in career WAR as an Orioles except for Frank (who only played 6 years here).  He's comparable in WAR/year for all of the rest (except Frank, who amassed a crazy 36 WAR in his 6 years here), if you want to think of it in terms of individual greatness while an Orioles, but he obviously falls well short in terms of time spent in Baltimore compared to all the others so he loses ground in longevity.

 

I do think it's a good test case, as there is nobody else remotely close to Mussina.  If Mussina is in, and if Mussina gets a statue, there wouldn't be any sort of slippery slope concern.

 

I'm not arguing his stats or HOF credibility, he just doesn't feel like an Oriole legend.  Probably because he spent the first half here and then left (PA's fault) for the hated rival for the other half of his career. 



#171 Hooded Viper

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:38 AM

Totally off topic but has to do with bonus baby's.  I was watching Bull Durham last night, best baseball movie ever (don't give me The Natural when Redford's swing was so bad :)), and Nuke was the bonus baby, but only received something like 100K.  He was a first rounder, now back in 1988 I guess that was a lot but today the kid's, and their agent's, heads would spin.  



#172 Mackus

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 10:09 AM

Totally off topic but has to do with bonus baby's.  I was watching Bull Durham last night, best baseball movie ever (don't give me The Natural when Redford's swing was so bad :)), and Nuke was the bonus baby, but only received something like 100K.  He was a first rounder, now back in 1988 I guess that was a lot but today the kid's, and their agent's, heads would spin.  

 

Greg Olson got a $200k bonus from the O's in 1988.  Well researched movie!


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#173 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 10:54 AM

Boswell on Mussina:

 

https://www.washingt...m=.3fa12170165c

 

 

I had sort of forgotten about this:

 

Yet after word hit the clubhouse that one of Mussina’s best friends, B.J. Surhoff, had been traded to the Atlanta Braves midseason, Moose called me to his locker — furious.

 

The Surhoffs had a child they believed could get better medical care at Johns Hopkins than anywhere else, and B.J. absolutely wanted to stay in Baltimore.

 

But Mussina, and other Orioles, believed he was traded in part out of spite after petty tiffs with a member of ownership.

 

“That’s it,” spit out Mussina, who was in his free agent walk year. “I’m out of here.”

 

The next year, he was a Yankee. Cause and effect?



#174 Hooded Viper

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 11:33 AM

Boswell on Mussina:

 

https://www.washingt...m=.3fa12170165c

 

 

I had sort of forgotten about this:

 

Man that is a great article and good for Moose being loyal to BJ.  Buuuuttttt, BJ is still in the fold so hopfefully he will be too.



#175 The Epic

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 12:05 PM

It's definitely a good thing that you're crazy about this one thing. ;)

 

 

It proves he's human!



#176 Mike in STL

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 01:48 PM

Anyone know if Moose was a guest on NY sports radio today? Cause The Fan was only able to book his brother for a segment this morning. Lol.

I know Moose was a pretty private guy, don’t want to say he was unfriendly to the media, but I don’t think he was very open.

Anyway, if he wouldn’t talk to Baltimore today, but did to NY, you can bet what hat he wears.
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#177 birdwatcher55

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 01:53 PM

No way does Mussina belong in the Hall of Fame. Incredible low bar these bonehead writers are setting now for HOF entry. Total fucking joke.



#178 SportsGuy

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 01:56 PM

No way does Mussina belong in the Hall of Fame. Incredible low bar these bonehead writers are setting now for HOF entry. Total fucking joke.

You are clueless if you believe this.



#179 Mackus

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 02:19 PM

Mussina's longevity, not his dominance, is what pushes him over the top, IMO.  He didn't have the high peak of someone like Halladay, but he was able to remain really good for an incredibly long time.  He wasn't as good of a pitcher for any one game or any one year as most of the other Hall of Fame pitchers, but there is tons of value and uniqueness in being able to do it for as long as he did.

 

Not everyone in the Hall of Fame needs to be an upper echelon, no doubt about it Hall of Famer.  That's not how it works.



#180 SportsGuy

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 02:44 PM

Mussina's longevity, not his dominance, is what pushes him over the top, IMO. He didn't have the high peak of someone like Halladay, but he was able to remain really good for an incredibly long time. He wasn't as good of a pitcher for any one game or any one year as most of the other Hall of Fame pitchers, but there is tons of value and uniqueness in being able to do it for as long as he did.

Not everyone in the Hall of Fame needs to be an upper echelon, no doubt about it Hall of Famer. That's not how it works.

He was a no doubt about it HOFer though.

Moose had 10 5+ WAR seasons..Halladay had 8.

Halladay did have a more dominant 3 or 4 year stretch near the end of his career but the best years in that stretch were in the NL and when the game was cleaner.




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