397 replies to this topic

[JeremyStrain]

Blah blah, WAR is flawed, and doesn't tell really accurate pictures from pitchers to position players.

Compare Jones to other CF and compare Hammel to other SP, but not to each other. If Hammel is your 4/5 starter, you are looking good. If Matusz/Britton can outperform him, Bundy comes through, and we add another #1/2 SP in FA, he'd be a killer #5. Wouldn't want to have a Lannan situation on our hands though.

Hammel is a TOR starter right now and with his stuff and peripherals, that doesn't appear to be changing anytime soon.

I think he balances out some later. More of a solid middle of the rotation guy but don't think he's TOR/ACE material. Glad that 2-seamer has been making such a difference for him.

[SportsGuy]

Hammel is a TOR starter right now and with his stuff and peripherals, that doesn't appear to be changing anytime soon.

I think he balances out some later. More of a solid middle of the rotation guy but don't think he's TOR/ACE material. Glad that 2-seamer has been making such a difference for him.

Is this what you see or assume will happen based on his history?

[JeremyStrain]

I think he balances out some later. More of a solid middle of the rotation guy but don't think he's TOR/ACE material. Glad that 2-seamer has been making such a difference for him.

Is this what you see or assume will happen based on his history?

Little of both, trying to adjust assessment because of the new pitch and the sharper curve, but hard to do, it's like a whole new pitcher almost. His whole career he's been hit harder once July rolls around, but I'm guessing from the knee issue already that he's going to do better than his career #s but he'll regress closer to normal as the season drags on than he is now. I'm thinking low 3's ERA and around a 1.2 WHIP.

[BSLChrisStoner]

O's will ask Hammel to stop the bleeding tomorrow, and carry them to a road win.

[JeremyStrain]

O's will ask Hammel to stop the bleeding tomorrow, and carry them to a road win.

Here's where you find out if he's got TOR potential or if he's a 2/3. An ace steps up and stops a streak like this with his A game. A 2/3 goes out and throws his normal game.

[SportsGuy]

O's will ask Hammel to stop the bleeding tomorrow, and carry them to a road win.

Here's where you find out if he's got TOR potential or if he's a 2/3. An ace steps up and stops a streak like this with his A game. A 2/3 goes out and throws his normal game.

I'm interested in seeing how the knee is.

[JeremyStrain]

Here's where you find out if he's got TOR potential or if he's a 2/3. An ace steps up and stops a streak like this with his A game. A 2/3 goes out and throws his normal game.

I'm interested in seeing how the knee is.

I imagine we will know about the 4th inning. That's about when it will fade if it's weak, if he starts getting knocked around in the 3-4th, we know what it is.

[Adam Wolff]

O's will ask Hammel to stop the bleeding tomorrow, and carry them to a road win.

Here's where you find out if he's got TOR potential or if he's a 2/3. An ace steps up and stops a streak like this with his A game. A 2/3 goes out and throws his normal game.

Yep, it would be huge to get an ace like performance out of him.

[SportsGuy]

Hammel said the BJs knew when he was throwing his breaking pitch according to Eddie E on twitter.

[LanceRinker]

Hammel said the BJs knew when he was throwing his breaking pitch according to Eddie E on twitter.

Maybe you saw my response to him on there..maybe not.

I asked if it was just coincidence or something legit that the Jays have been accused multiple times of stealing signs over the last few seasons.

[JeremyStrain]

O's will ask Hammel to stop the bleeding tomorrow, and carry them to a road win.

Here's where you find out if he's got TOR potential or if he's a 2/3. An ace steps up and stops a streak like this with his A game. A 2/3 goes out and throws his normal game.

Welp, I guess he's more of a 2/3.

[RichardZ]

Here's where you find out if he's got TOR potential or if he's a 2/3. An ace steps up and stops a streak like this with his A game. A 2/3 goes out and throws his normal game.

Welp, I guess he's more of a 2/3.

Yeah, if you buy the original premise. Even if Hammel was 100% healthy I wouldn't judge whether he was an ace on not on one game.

[LanceRinker]

Welp, I guess he's more of a 2/3.

yeah..I was hopeful he'd continue his pace but even with his new pitch and a slightly better environment to pitch in I wasn't sure what to expect exactly.

A good 2/3 starter still sounds good in the grand scheme of things though.

[Oriole85]

Welp, I guess he's more of a 2/3.

Yeah, if you buy the original premise. Even if Hammel was 100% healthy I wouldn't judge whether he was an ace on not on one game.

Dumb to make such a proclamation on any player based on such a small sample size.

[JeremyStrain]

Yeah, if you buy the original premise. Even if Hammel was 100% healthy I wouldn't judge whether he was an ace on not on one game.

Dumb to make such a proclamation on any player based on such a small sample size.

Yes, I know that. I keep forgetting not everyone here knows me as well as the majority and some take me too literally sometimes.

Was making a tongue-in-cheek reference to the premise I made earlier...hence why I quoted myself. I would never make stupid one game reactionary presumption. I am highlighting however, that for those people who think he might be an ace (I don't by the way), that these are the situations that make an ace. A true #1 is just a #2 with extra intangibles, so it's these situations at the end of the year that you need to look back on to make that assessment.

[JeremyStrain]

Welp, I guess he's more of a 2/3.

yeah..I was hopeful he'd continue his pace but even with his new pitch and a slightly better environment to pitch in I wasn't sure what to expect exactly.

A good 2/3 starter still sounds good in the grand scheme of things though.

Yeah no shame in that, he still looks really good this year and much better than I thought he would be, but he raised the bar and expectations of himself with those first few starts. I think he regresses more towards his career averages, but stays on the better side of it with that new sinker and crisp curve in the end. No shame in being a #2 or a #3 on a really good team.

[LanceRinker]

Yeah no shame in that, he still looks really good this year and much better than I thought he would be, but he raised the bar and expectations of himself with those first few starts. I think he regresses more towards his career averages, but stays on the better side of it with that new sinker and crisp curve in the end. No shame in being a #2 or a #3 on a really good team.

Hmmm...the real question though is this.

IF the O's are definitely out of contention, or not close enough in a realistic sense, by the trade deadline do they sell high on Hammel?

[SportsGuy]

yeah..I was hopeful he'd continue his pace but even with his new pitch and a slightly better environment to pitch in I wasn't sure what to expect exactly.

A good 2/3 starter still sounds good in the grand scheme of things though.

Yeah no shame in that, he still looks really good this year and much better than I thought he would be, but he raised the bar and expectations of himself with those first few starts. I think he regresses more towards his career averages, but stays on the better side of it with that new sinker and crisp curve in the end. No shame in being a #2 or a #3 on a really good team.

He is better than a #3.

[JeremyStrain]

Yeah no shame in that, he still looks really good this year and much better than I thought he would be, but he raised the bar and expectations of himself with those first few starts. I think he regresses more towards his career averages, but stays on the better side of it with that new sinker and crisp curve in the end. No shame in being a #2 or a #3 on a really good team.

Hmmm...the real question though is this.

IF the O's are definitely out of contention, or not close enough in a realistic sense, by the trade deadline do they sell high on Hammel?

I say no, because even if we fall out then, we are 1-2 years from being a legit contender, and you're just going to have to replace him anyway. I'd hang on to most pieces we have at this point (sans Reynolds, the one year contract guys, and maybe JJ) with the intent on supplementing them in FA to make a serious run next season.

[JeremyStrain]

Yeah no shame in that, he still looks really good this year and much better than I thought he would be, but he raised the bar and expectations of himself with those first few starts. I think he regresses more towards his career averages, but stays on the better side of it with that new sinker and crisp curve in the end. No shame in being a #2 or a #3 on a really good team.

He is better than a #3.

That's why I said 2/3 and on a really good team. If you put him in DC, being a 3 is a compliment being ahead of Jordan Zimmermann, if you put him in PHI he's behind Halladay and Hamels, which is also not a bad time to be a 3.