414 replies to this topic

[JeremyStrain]

Umm, Asencio? Those guys you listed can't pitch in every win. We're walking a tight rope pitching the same guys all the time as much as we have. 

 

BTW: Jim Beattie called Vlad a luxury in 2004 because they had Jay Gibbons. There are no luxuries when you're trying to win a world championship. 

 

He is not a serious part of the BP, he's interchangeable. They don't need to pitch in every win. How many times have all of them pitched in the past 2 weeks? If you upgrade your SP, Hammel goes to the pen he takes that spot anyway.

 

And there is no such thing as a luxury on that 2004 team, it was terrible. Gibbons was easily upgradeable, and don't quote FO employee BS media answers as being real talk

[PD24]

Most teams don't rely on their 6th guy in the pen for high leverage situations. That's not walking on a tight rope. And there are internal options better than the current 6th man.

 

We're walking a tight rope by pitching the same guys every single time they win. They all are pitching more than they should by this point in the season by necessity. What if one of them gets hurt? You can never have too much depth. 

This type of thinking has led to the O's being terrible for 15 years. 

[mweb08]

Sure, there is a point where it's not worth it.

Trading Delmonico is no where near that point for me.

So where is that point?

[BSLChrisStoner]

Don't see the BP as an area of need. At all. Who did you upgrade over? You had JJ, O'Day, Matusz, and Hunter already getting all the late-leverage situations. Is he significantly better than any of them that it required giving up a guy that you think will end up being an .850-.900 OPS bat?

 

Would I have dealt any one or two of 15 other guys for him? Sure. But he was a luxury. It wasn't an upgrade in the rotation where they REALLY needed, and what are you going to do with Hammel when you bump him to upgrade him? He's going to the pen, which adjusts people's roles, but it adds depth just like you are arguing for.

 

I think the argument about trading Delmonico's value is better than projecting him as a guy that will eventually be an .850-.900 OPS bat.

 

He's going to consistently be better than Markakis has been for his career? Not likely.

[BSLChrisStoner]

So where is that point?

 

Trading Delmonico, Schoop, and E. Rodriguez for Garza.

[mweb08]

We're walking a tight rope by pitching the same guys every single time they win. They all are pitching more than they should by this point in the season by necessity. What if one of them gets hurt? You can never have too much depth.

This type of thinking has led to the O's being terrible for 15 years.

They have 5 guys that can pitch in high leverage situations, that's a good amount, and a 6th is in the minors.

[mweb08]

Trading Delmonico, Schoop, and E. Rodriguez for Garza.

Where is it regarding Rodriguez?

[JeremyStrain]

Well, when Ascensio is not on the team tomorrow, you upgraded over him to start.

 

Why does Rodriguez have to be an upgrade over Johnson, O'Day, Hunter, and Matusz? He just has to add to them, and provide another option which he does.

 

You have 4 starters you are going to rely on the rest of the way in Gonzalez, Chen, Tillman, and Feldman... I think upgrading externally over Hammel was the luxury, and you have options in Gausman and Britton to replace internally.

 

Because if you are giving up legit prospects, and I don't know why so many people are so cold on him like he's been a bust or something, cause I've yet to hear one reason why he was such a flawed prospect, to upgrade the LAST guy in your BP that is pretty much a replacement player, then you are doing a terrible job of managing a franchise.

 

If he's not upgrading over one of the 4-5 best RP in your pen, then it's not a very important move at all. If you seriously think that relying on Gonzalez, Chen, Tillman and Feldman is going to carry this team past Boston, and TB I don't know what to tell you, cause I don't think it's going to be close to enough. That's having an awful lot of faith in the offense to carry this team, and teams built like that generally have trouble in the playoffs.

[PD24]

So where is that point?

We're talking about a guy who's hitting .244 in single A. I'm not trying to put him down...he's obviously a decent prospect. But what are the chances this guy has any impact on the O's before 2015? Before 2016? What are the chances he's in the big leagues in 2018?

 

You are acting like someone who has spent way too long as a fan of a losing, pathetic team to an extent that you don't understand how good teams operate. You can't keep every single player in your minor league system. 

[bnickle]

Eh, I like that they're being aggressive and KRod is good reliever (not as good as his numbers this year), but I think Gausman or Steve Johnson were good candidates to be approximately as good, and Delmonico is a high price to pay with that assumption in mind imo.

No, I want someone who has been there before pitching high leverage innings down the stretch in a pennant race. Not Gausman or Steve Johnson.

[JeremyStrain]

I think the argument about trading Delmonico's value is better than projecting him as a guy that will eventually be an .850-.900 OPS bat.

 

He's going to consistently be better than Markakis has been for his career? Not likely.

 

For a guy you didn't need that MIGHT pitch 30 innings for you in the next 60 games?

 

Package him in a deal to upgrade the rotation and I wouldn't argue. I'm not SO tied to Delmonico that I'm incensed they traded him, I'm more upset they gave away a legit piece for something they didn't really need just to block him from going to another team basically.

[PD24]

No, I want someone who has been there before pitching high leverage innings down the stretch in a pennant race. Not Gausman or Steve Johnson.

 

Seriously. I'm literally in disbelief over some of the crap I'm reading on here. Steve Johnson? LOL. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Where is it regarding Rodriguez?

 

I wouldn't have traded Schoop or Rodriguez (or Bundy obviously).. Delmonico was my 4th overall prospect in the system. Zero problem moving him.

[mweb08]

No, I want someone who has been there before pitching high leverage innings down the stretch in a pennant race. Not Gausman or Steve Johnson.

Steve did that last year, and was fantastic.

Gausman has great stuff and there's a precedent for teams using a talented young starter in the pen down the stretch.

[PD24]

For a guy you didn't need that MIGHT pitch 30 innings for you in the next 60 games?

 

Package him in a deal to upgrade the rotation and I wouldn't argue. I'm not SO tied to Delmonico that I'm incensed they traded him, I'm more upset they gave away a legit piece for something they didn't really need just to block him from going to another team basically.

What do you mean by didn't need? No offense but you are not making any sense at all. Delmonico isn't a legit piece. He's in A ball hitting .244 and he's several years away from having any impact at the major league level, and the chance that he ever has a legit impact is very questionable.

 

You're smarter than this. You know how unlikely it is that ANY prospect reaches the big leagues much less becomes a valuable contributor.

The O's got max value out of a guy and undoubtedly upgraded the team. The O's should acquire tens of new Delmonico's between now and when he would have ever had an impact up here.

 

BTW: Why did the O's "need" Scott Feldman when they could just have Gausman starting? Why does any team in the pennant race "need" anyone unless there's an injury? 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Because if you are giving up legit prospects, and I don't know why so many people are so cold on him like he's been a bust or something, cause I've yet to hear one reason why he was such a flawed prospect, to upgrade the LAST guy in your BP that is pretty much a replacement player, then you are doing a terrible job of managing a franchise.

 

If he's not upgrading over one of the 4-5 best RP in your pen, then it's not a very important move at all. If you seriously think that relying on Gonzalez, Chen, Tillman and Feldman is going to carry this team past Boston, and TB I don't know what to tell you, cause I don't think it's going to be close to enough. That's having an awful lot of faith in the offense to carry this team, and teams built like that generally have trouble in the playoffs.

 

You've upgraded the entire bullpen by his acquisition. He's another guy that can be used in high leverage situations, which means you don't have to use the same arms night after night.

 

Who said Delmonico was a bust? He's not... he is prospect with promise. A guy that many looked at as a 1st rd talent going into the Spring before the draft... who has shown flashes of that guy. A guy I think was our 4th best prospect...  but he's not some definitive guy. He's a guy with some promise who has positional concerns, and many don't think has the bat speed necessary to hit at higher levels.

 

The O's are trying to win in '13. The team is built to win in '13... they made a move that improves them for '13.  Just an easy move for me... I respect that for you and others it was not.

[PD24]

Steve did that last year, and was fantastic.

Gausman has great stuff and there's a precedent for teams using a talented young starter in the pen down the stretch.

 

Where's the precedent? David Price and Adam Wainwright, two of the best pitchers of our time? 

 

What happen when Gausman comes up and shows he isn't ready? Then what? 

 

We're trying to win here...not build a science experiment. 

[mweb08]

Seriously. I'm literally in disbelief over some of the crap I'm reading on here. Steve Johnson? LOL.

The guy has been pretty good for the O's and has gotten a ton of K's. His injury is an issue, but I think if he hadn't gotten hurt, this trade wouldn't have happened.

[mweb08]

Where's the precedent? David Price and Adam Wainwright, two of the best pitchers of our time?

What happen when Gausman comes up and shows he isn't ready? Then what?

We're trying to win here...not build a science experiment.

Gausman has pitched well out of the pen and doesn't need to be counted on for a lot of high leverage innings.

[JeremyStrain]

What do you mean by didn't need? No offense but you are not making any sense at all. Delmonico isn't a legit piece. He's in A ball hitting .244 and he's several years away from having any impact at the major league level, and the chance that he ever has a legit impact is very questionable.

 

You're smarter than this. You know how unlikely it is that ANY prospect reaches the big leagues much less becomes a valuable contributor.

The O's got max value out of a guy and undoubtedly upgraded the team. The O's should acquire tens of new Delmonico's between now and when he would have ever had an impact up here.

 

BTW: Why did the O's "need" Scott Feldman when they could just have Gausman starting? Why does any team in the pennant race "need" anyone unless there's an injury? 

 

Because Gausman isn't ready and this rotation even with Feldman isn't good enough. Upgrading the rotation moves a SP into the pen which also upgrades the BP.

 

Short sighted, but feel free to get back to me at the end of the year when we are saying, boy we never would have won a world series title without KRod.