414 replies to this topic

[Oriole85]

Miguel Cabrera would be incredibly overpaid as a garbage time pitcher.

Ok you know exactly what I'm saying. I'm asking if the player is good enough, do you overlook their flaws and take them on the team? Or does your K-Rod standard of refusing to accept them onto the team, apply across the board regardless of talent and/or ability level?

[Cisc-O's]

Ok you know exactly what I'm saying. I'm asking if the player is good enough, do you overlook their flaws and take them on the team? Or does your K-Rod standard of refusing to accept them onto the team, apply across the board regardless of talent and/or ability level?

Of course for him to have taken that view he is going to end up looking hypocritical.  You could just ask him to list his all time most celebrated atheletes and I bet in a list of his top 10 or 20 you could find a lot of dirt on 1 or 2.  I get it though you just want him to say it

[Oriole85]

Of course for him to have taken that view he is going to end up looking hypocritical.  You could just ask him to list his all time most celebrated atheletes and I bet in a list of his top 10 or 20 you could find a lot of dirt on 1 or 2.  I get it though you just want him to say it

That's the slippery slope you get into on this debate when you say you'll make an exception for player A (All-Star) but not player B (average player). Unless you have the same standards for all players, winning does come at a moral price. Bottomline, if you aren't winning, it doesn't really matter if you have a team full of Boy Scouts.

[Jon Shepherd]

Ok you know exactly what I'm saying. I'm asking if the player is good enough, do you overlook their flaws and take them on the team? Or does your K-Rod standard of refusing to accept them onto the team, apply across the board regardless of talent and/or ability level?

Well, your comment had nothing to do with what you quoted, so I gave the relevant response.

If Cabrera was arrested as opposed to being taken in for questioning...then, yes, if a player got drunk and beat on his woman ... yeah, I would find a way to get him off the roster. I would not tolerate someone beating his wife.. Some things go beyond winning.

I also think Os were way too lenient on Patton and his DUI. I would not release a player on a DUI, but he would be suspended harshly.

[Jon Shepherd]

Of course for him to have taken that view he is going to end up looking hypocritical. You could just ask him to list his all time most celebrated atheletes and I bet in a list of his top 10 or 20 you could find a lot of dirt on 1 or 2. I get it though you just want him to say it

Has not to do with me looking one way or another. I male decisions based on what makes sense to me. I don't care what people think of me on message boards.

As I have said and written repeatedly at some point baseball is simply a game. I would not want a team full of rapists and wife beaters. I'd prefer a 44 win team to root for than a 100 win team full of awful people.

You two obviously don't have that moral consideration when looking at these things. We view things differently.

[Cisc-O's]

Well, your comment had nothing to do with what you quoted, so I gave the relevant response.

If Cabrera was arrested as opposed to being taken in for questioning...then, yes, if a player got drunk and beat on his woman ... yeah, I would find a way to get him off the roster. I would not tolerate someone beating his wife.. Some things go beyond winning.

I also think Os were way too lenient on Patton and his DUI. I would not release a player on a DUI, but he would be suspended harshly.

So for you because charges were dropped you take the law into your own hands.  Sure you should not be BSLBatman?

[Jon Shepherd]

Confused.

Where am I taking the law into my own hands?

I would not employ anyone who is shown to beat on old men and women. That is not taking the law in my own hands. That is establishing a code of conduct for the team.

[Oriole85]

Well, your comment had nothing to do with what you quoted, so I gave the relevant response.

If Cabrera was arrested as opposed to being taken in for questioning...then, yes, if a player got drunk and beat on his woman ... yeah, I would find a way to get him off the roster. I would not tolerate someone beating his wife.. Some things go beyond winning.

I also think Os were way too lenient on Patton and his DUI. I would not release a player on a DUI, but he would be suspended harshly.

MLB/teams can still act irrespective of what the courts decide.

 

Kind of curious what you've done with Patton, the maximum possible suspension?

[Jon Shepherd]

MLB/teams can still act irrespective of what the courts decide.

Kind of curious what you've done with Patton, the maximum possible suspension?

Of course they can. Levels of proof differ. Point is that I want a clear case for an inexcusable transgression.

Depending on what the CBA allows...I would keep Patton in extended spring training or simply suspend him for a month, fine him, and suggest he does community outreach.

[Cisc-O's]

Confused.

Where am I taking the law into my own hands?

I would not employ anyone who is shown to beat on old men and women. That is not taking the law in my own hands. That is establishing a code of conduct for the team.

 

I wrote down many scenario's that could have happened in that situation but it does no good because I see you are set on this issue.  The father in law was trying to take his kids back to his country so you never know how you would react when someone tries to take your kids away.  The other fact is he hit the father in law not his girlfriend/childrens mother and he was 53.  Not an old hobbled man.  You don't know the situation its been gone since 2010 so I guess forgiveness is not on your moral high ground either.

[Jon Shepherd]

I wrote down many scenario's that could have happened in that situation but it does no good because I see you are set on this issue. The father in law was trying to take his kids back to his country so you never know how you would react when someone tries to take your kids away. The other fact is he hit the father in law not his girlfriend/childrens mother and he was 53. Not an old hobbled man. You don't know the situation its been gone since 2010 so I guess forgiveness is not on your moral high ground either.

I guess there are always excuses why people hit other people and always reasons why they are convicted of attacking a man in far worse physical shape. Rodriguez in his prime as an athlete is onviously a mismatch and for him to escalate the situation to that degree is without excuse.

And, yeah, my moral compass will not budge in this instance. We can ignore the fact finding of incidents of supposed violence he tool part in in Venezuela against women. We can ignore what happened in Milwaukee. Perhaps he is just really misunderstood and he just repeatedly surrounds himself with people providing him reasons to use his physicality to hurt them.

[Jon Shepherd]

And, no, it is not job to forgive and I make no claim to know who he is. But you bring violence to others, then I choose not to involve myself with them. Redemption is possible and often probably, but I have limits to what I will accept.

[Cisc-O's]

And, no, it is not job to forgive and I make no claim to know who he is. But you bring violence to others, then I choose not to involve myself with them. Redemption is possible and often probably, but I have limits to what I will accept.

 

You don't have kids so you really can't be reasoned with on this situation.  You don't know the emotional connection you have with them.  Some people before they have kids think animals are their kids.  I can tell you as one of those people that it pales in comparison and if anyone was to try to take my daughter away to another state/country even if it was my 51 year old father in law he would be dealing with a lunatic.  I react so irreationally when it comes to my kids safety, when I drove my wife and daughter home from the hospital I drove 30 mph the whole way and was honked at multiple times. 

[Jon Shepherd]

You don't really know me, so you are making inaccurate assumptions to explain things.

People choose many paths and there often are non-violent and legal ways to do something. This is especially true for millionaires. I am not a millionaire, but I do have experience in nonescalation manuevers.

This all said. I don't see why either of us would choose to extend this conversation.

[Oriole85]

You don't have kids so you really can't be reasoned with on this situation.  You don't know the emotional connection you have with them.  Some people before they have kids think animals are their kids.  I can tell you as one of those people that it pales in comparison and if anyone was to try to take my daughter away to another state/country even if it was my 51 year old father in law he would be dealing with a lunatic.  I react so irreationally when it comes to my kids safety, when I drove my wife and daughter home from the hospital I drove 30 mph the whole way and was honked at multiple times. 

In this kind of instance, I don't think any of us can say how they would've acted until they are ACTUALLY in the situation. Like you said, when your kids, spouse, or someone else you have an emotional connection with is involved, you throw out the rules to some extent, whether lawful or not.