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#41 Tucker Blair

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:49 AM

He hasn't shown an ounce of improvement for over a year. I highly doubt he suddenly learns how to play well at 3B, since he was already below average in the first place. They simply need to cut their loss and move him out of 3B. I'm more worried about him hurting the development of the pitching with these crucial errors, rather than what is best for Davis and Reynolds.

Also, I brought up the idea of moving Davis to 3B, so he would be getting AB there. They can test run him still if they please.

#42 Oriole85

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:01 PM

I'd give him more time at 3B unless there's a young prospect they want to try. I doubt Wilson Betemit is going to be a long-term option. They are paying Reynolds a substantial amount of money and there's no reason not to give him an opportunity in most likely a throw-away season.

In terms of the whole "fair" thing, I've seen a few people post about... this is a business. Who cares what is "fair" to the player? It's about what is fair to employer and their clients(in this case the fans). No employer is going to be fair to the employee, the bottomline is what's best for the business.
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#43 bnickle

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

No way should they pick up an 11 mil option for a .800 OPS DH. Buy him out and be done with him. Since he is still arb eligible maybe you offer and agree on something around 9 mil but even thats likely too much IMO. I'll be completely honest, I don't see much of a chance of Reynolds being in an O's uni this time next year.

#44 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:45 PM

At this point, not one single person should care about what is "fair" to Reynolds, Davis, etc.
Its all about performance at the MLB level. Either you can or can't perform, and they both have had absolutely enough time to prove it.


In terms of the whole "fair" thing, I've seen a few people post about... this is a business. Who cares what is "fair" to the player? It's about what is fair to employer and their clients(in this case the fans). No employer is going to be fair to the employee, the bottomline is what's best for the business.


I think I'm the only one who talked about moving Davis off of 1st, not being 'fair' to Davis. I'm not talking about what is 'equitable' here. I'm fully cognizant that we are talking about professionals, and MLB performance.

My point is with Davis, you told him all Winter, and all Spring he would be at 1st. You don't reverse course with that plan in mid-April, and tell him he now has to move back across the diamond. That would be an adjustment for any player, certainly a player who is trying to prove he can produce consistently at the ML level.

When I talk about what is fair to Davis, I am talking about what is best for the business; and thinking about the team (and winning) solely.

#45 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:57 PM

No way should they pick up an 11 mil option for a .800 OPS DH. Buy him out and be done with him. Since he is still arb eligible maybe you offer and agree on something around 9 mil but even thats likely too much IMO. I'll be completely honest, I don't see much of a chance of Reynolds being in an O's uni this time next year.


Only a $500k buyout for next year if they decide on that.

I can see Reynolds being worth the $11m option next year as an .800 OPS DH. In '09, FanGraphs valued him as 3.5 WAR player equating to $15.7M in production. In '10, FanGraphs valued him as 2.3 WAR player equating to $9.2M.

As a primary DH, is it reasonable to believe Reynolds would be a 3 WAR player next year? If so, that should be worth $10M plus.

I have no problem with the O's shopping him this year, but I will be surprised if he brings back more in a trade, than he could add to the O's in '13.

#46 DJ MC

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:35 AM

He hasn't shown an ounce of improvement for over a year. I highly doubt he suddenly learns how to play well at 3B, since he was already below average in the first place. They simply need to cut their loss and move him out of 3B. I'm more worried about him hurting the development of the pitching with these crucial errors, rather than what is best for Davis and Reynolds.

Also, I brought up the idea of moving Davis to 3B, so he would be getting AB there. They can test run him still if they please.


No one thinks he will learn to play "well". Some of us believe he can go back to where he was before, which was somewhere between average and below-average depending on the year and the measure.

The reason we think that is because, once again, his numbers last year by basically every measure were TWICE as bad, in HALF a season, as in any full season in Arizona. Since most Orioles fans only have experience with his defense from his time in Baltimore, it is easy to ignore the evidence out there that 2011 might be the aberration and the other four major-league seasons the norm.

If he can show that, he becomes much more valuable than at any other position, both as a trade commodity and as a baseball player. This team should be giving him every reasonable opportunity to show that.

#47 Oriole85

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:17 PM

I think I'm the only one who talked about moving Davis off of 1st, not being 'fair' to Davis. I'm not talking about what is 'equitable' here. I'm fully cognizant that we are talking about professionals, and MLB performance.

My point is with Davis, you told him all Winter, and all Spring he would be at 1st. You don't reverse course with that plan in mid-April, and tell him he now has to move back across the diamond. That would be an adjustment for any player, certainly a player who is trying to prove he can produce consistently at the ML level.

When I talk about what is fair to Davis, I am talking about what is best for the business; and thinking about the team (and winning) solely.

And to that I would say things change like they do in any other business. Players get injured, ineffective, you have to adjust. Just like if you apply for a position at a job and then you get reassigned elsewhere through no fault of your own.
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#48 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:35 PM

And to that I would say things change like they do in any other business. Players get injured, ineffective, you have to adjust. Just like if you apply for a position at a job and then you get reassigned elsewhere through no fault of your own.


That is fair. Life is always about change, and making adjustments.

Since you have brought up the examples of business several times, I'll give a similar example. Let's say you meet with your Financial Advisor to begin the year. Together you outline your investment strategy for the year.

You then experience a couple of down days in the first days of the first Quarter, with no new information learned. Do you run back to the Advisor to change your strategy? Of course not. The rationale that was used to develop your investment strategy for the year still exists. You take a longer-term approach. At the absolute minimum, you wait until you get your Quarterly statement back before making any changes.

#49 SportsGuy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:39 PM

He hasn't shown an ounce of improvement for over a year. I highly doubt he suddenly learns how to play well at 3B, since he was already below average in the first place. They simply need to cut their loss and move him out of 3B. I'm more worried about him hurting the development of the pitching with these crucial errors, rather than what is best for Davis and Reynolds.

Also, I brought up the idea of moving Davis to 3B, so he would be getting AB there. They can test run him still if they please.

1) He showed improvement almost every year in Arizona. The only way its not reasonable to expect him to show improvement here is if he is so mentally screwed up that he can't get it back. He isn't a bumbling fool over there. You may remember Berroa in RF. He was like the worst defensive player I have ever seen. People act like that is what Reynolds is and he isn't. He moves well, has solid range and a good arm. But he is lazy at times and quite frankly, he has no confidence. You can see him almost thinking everytime the ball is hit to him. He just has to relax.

2) No one expects him to be some excellent defender...Just a slightly below average guy that has the ability to make the tough plays.

3) Davis is a poor defensive third baseman...he always has been. Betemit as well.....No reason to move Reynolds right now.

#50 Bob Klein

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:03 PM

If I may ask a question, and disregarding the effects on any player's future value (just because it's so subjective and depends on other teams' needs): wouldn't it make sense to play Reynolds and Davis at the defensive positions where both of them combined would do the least damage?

I don't think there is a reason to expect Reynolds to improve defensively at 3rd, not even to his Arizona level. It is more likely he will remain the same as last year or maybe get worse because he is getting older and 3rd requires a lot of hand-eye coordination and ability to react and move quickly. It's more important at 3rd than at 1st because at 3rd you also have to throw the ball after fielding it. Last year Reynolds had a lot of throwing errors from 3rd.

At the same time, Reynolds' defense at 1st, at least last year, was statistically much better than it was at 3rd. It was at least acceptable until a better player arrives. He did a fairly good job of blocking bad throws and digging them out of the dirt.

As for Davis, I don't know enough about him to talk about any defensive difference when he plays 3rd vs. 1st, but it seems logical to me that all he needs to be is better than Reynolds was at 3rd to make a position switch between the two.

I also agree that what the players want or were told really shouldn't have any influence. Every player is on the team to help the team win. It's up to the manager to decide where they should play based on what he thinks is in the best interests of winning.

#51 SportsGuy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:39 PM

Betimet showing that he isn't good over there.

Davis has never been regarded as a good third baseman.

Bob, to answer your question, Davis is known as a good defensive first baseman and Reynolds wasn't as good at first as people want to think he was. So, really the best scenario, for the next few months at least, is to put Reynolds at third and Davis at first..if for no other reason, then it is where they are the most comfortable and there are here for offense anyway.

#52 Oriole85

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:51 PM

That is fair. Life is always about change, and making adjustments.

Since you have brought up the examples of business several times, I'll give a similar example. Let's say you meet with your Financial Advisor to begin the year. Together you outline your investment strategy for the year.

You then experience a couple of down days in the first days of the first Quarter, with no new information learned. Do you run back to the Advisor to change your strategy? Of course not. The rationale that was used to develop your investment strategy for the year still exists. You take a longer-term approach. At the absolute minimum, you wait until you get your Quarterly statement back before making any changes.

Agreed with that I already said I wouldn't give up on Reynolds at 3B, just putting players feelings and even expectations at a minimal concern.
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#53 glorydays

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:23 PM

Another week has passed and Reynolds continues to struggle both in the field and at bat.

He didn't exactly tear up the first 15 games last year - .691 OPS 15K's, 1hr/10rbi in 56abs. However, last year you could say that he was adjusting to the new league/ball fields, etc.

This year he just looks lost. Wondering if the weight loss has gone to his head.

#54 Luke Jackson

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:20 PM

I'll include my magical insight. He looks awful.
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#55 NewMarketSean

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:53 PM

He may look awful but we dont have a choice but to keep playing him and hope for the best.
I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#56 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:21 PM

Good to see some life from Reynolds these last two days.

#57 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:56 PM

Reynolds walked for the 7th time in his last 5 games, but again had issues at 3rd.

I've come around to the idea that you can't just leave him out there. I had hoped he would be closer to his '09, '10 levels... doesn't seem like it will happen. If they want to try moving Davis back there, and giving Reynolds more time, so be it.

If they want to play Betemit at 3rd, and think it will be slightly better... that is fine to. The one issue there, is with Riemold's injury, Betemit is getting time in LF.

I expect you do see Flaherty or someone else at 3rd tomorrow.

#58 chrismonty

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:06 PM

I'll include my magical insight. He looks awful.


This.

#59 bnickle

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:57 PM

Reynolds walked for the 7th time in his last 5 games, but again had issues at 3rd.

I've come around to the idea that you can't just leave him out there. I had hoped he would be closer to his '09, '10 levels... doesn't seem like it will happen. If they want to try moving Davis back there, and giving Reynolds more time, so be it.

If they want to play Betemit at 3rd, and think it will be slightly better... that is fine to. The one issue there, is with Riemold's injury, Betemit is getting time in LF.

I expect you do see Flaherty or someone else at 3rd tomorrow.


It's 99.9 % Reynolds is not at 3rd tomorrow. They have to do something and the answer isn't Chris Davis or Betemit either. Put Flaherty there, call up Bill Hall. SOmething, but we have to improve at 3b defensively.

#60 DBean

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:41 PM

Are there any OF prospects ready to play in the ML. I say get one of them to play LF. Then you put Betemit at 3B and have Davis and Reyonlds switch between 1B and DH. I'm not a very big fan of Flaherty playing. He might have a decent glove, but I'm not very confident in his offensive abilities.
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