353 replies to this topic

[FlavaDave10]

Yeah, I get the point. We're going to have to do this soon, or even Machado to 3B at first. I think next year in spring, we'll see Hardy play some 3B. The idea being that we just want to keep our options open. I also think that Machado will start learning 3B too.

I could see Hardy being upset that he is being asked to move to 3B for a rookie. Especially if he continues playing like he is. It's a bit of a demotion, and it hurts his value for his next contract if he moves off SS. I don't want to create a situation where we might HAVE to move Hardy. Let's see what works best for now, as far as who moves to 3B, and keep all our options open.

Yeah it could be an issue, it's hard to tell without actually bringing it up to him, but he is getting older and his glove is great but his range has always been a little less, as that starts to fade, he's going to have to go to 2B/3B anyway. He's always reminded me a bit of Jeff Kent.

Like Dave said though, premium positions tend to ebb and flow on supply and demand, right now there is a vacuum of 3B in the ML, and more good offensive SS than 3B, so he might actually stay the same or increase his value a bit by moving. Going to 2B would have a neg value effect I think, but SS/3B aren't TOO far apart these days. I'm sure we can come up with a solution, and it's better than anything we could get in FA, but I think that's part of why the Nats were leaving Rendon at 3B, his value is actually higher there than at 2B, so if they trade him they could get a good bounty, and if not they could move someone to 1B and the other goes to 3B between him and Zim.

When Machado gets here, he plays shortstop. End of discussion. If you've ever seen him play, you'd understand why. I haven't seen a shortstop prospect at his age look as comfortable as he does and make the kind of plays that he makes on a daily basis look so routine.

[waroriole]

Yeah, I get the point. We're going to have to do this soon, or even Machado to 3B at first. I think next year in spring, we'll see Hardy play some 3B. The idea being that we just want to keep our options open. I also think that Machado will start learning 3B too.

I could see Hardy being upset that he is being asked to move to 3B for a rookie. Especially if he continues playing like he is. It's a bit of a demotion, and it hurts his value for his next contract if he moves off SS. I don't want to create a situation where we might HAVE to move Hardy. Let's see what works best for now, as far as who moves to 3B, and keep all our options open.

I don't know if it would hurt his value. If it would, it would be minimal. Allow me to explain. Here's a list of all the elite 3B:

Evan Longoria
Miguel Cabrera
Adrian Beltre
Ryan Zimmerman
David Wright
Hanley Ramirez

All but one of those guys (David Wright, who has HUGE injury problems) are locked up long-term. So basically, third basemen are at a premium these days. If Hardy could prove himself to be a capable fielder at third base and keep his offensive numbers, he could be primed for a very nice contract. I think he could handle the change. It's just a question of if he wants to.

That's a good point. I don't know if that makes up for being moved off 3B, but it's certainly something you could sell him on if he has complaints. That said, I think as a player he's going to see it as a demotion, because they're telling him that he's not the best defensive player on the team anymore.

[JeremyStrain]

When Machado gets here, he plays shortstop. End of discussion. If you've ever seen him play, you'd understand why. I haven't seen a shortstop prospect at his age look as comfortable as he does and make the kind of plays that he makes on a daily basis look so routine.

He can get a little stiff sometimes, but yeah you are right, he can stick there, and I think when he's comfortable he's pretty darn good. I think he could handle 3B too, he's got a good first step and a cannon.

[FlavaDave10]

I don't know if it would hurt his value. If it would, it would be minimal. Allow me to explain. Here's a list of all the elite 3B:

Evan Longoria
Miguel Cabrera
Adrian Beltre
Ryan Zimmerman
David Wright
Hanley Ramirez

All but one of those guys (David Wright, who has HUGE injury problems) are locked up long-term. So basically, third basemen are at a premium these days. If Hardy could prove himself to be a capable fielder at third base and keep his offensive numbers, he could be primed for a very nice contract. I think he could handle the change. It's just a question of if he wants to.

That's a good point. I don't know if that makes up for being moved off 3B, but it's certainly something you could sell him on if he has complaints. That said, I think as a player he's going to see it as a demotion, because they're telling him that he's not the best defensive player on the team anymore.

Very good point. Hardy seems like a guy who's a good team player though. One thing to keep in mind: Could Hardy handle third base? He has a solid arm, and his range would be at worst above average at third base. The concern I have is his durability. Hardy has never been known as a durable guy, and he'd be switching to the second most brutal position-player position in baseball (catcher is far and away first).

[Oriole85]

3B is an important position, but I'd still say that SS is a more premium position and I don't think Hardy would increase his value going there. Not that I would be opposed to moving him in the right scenario, most likely Machado.

I'd also say 2B the more brutal position than 3B with all the breaking up of double plays as they tend to be smaller than SS's.

[JeremyStrain]

Very good point. Hardy seems like a guy who's a good team player though. One thing to keep in mind: Could Hardy handle third base? He has a solid arm, and his range would be at worst above average at third base. The concern I have is his durability. Hardy has never been known as a durable guy, and he'd be switching to the second most brutal position-player position in baseball (catcher is far and away first).

I worry a little about that too actually. It's more reflex and arm strength at the corners, and lateral movement in the middle. I'd feel more comfortable with him in the middle, but that requires another solution for 3B. I would say maybe you let him and Schoop square off to see which one is better at 2B and 3B maybe.

[FlavaDave10]

3B is an important position, but I'd still say that SS is a more premium position and I don't think Hardy would increase his value going there. Not that I would be opposed to moving him in the right scenario, most likely Machado.

I'd also say 2B the more brutal position than 3B with all the breaking up of double plays as they tend to be smaller than SS's.

Right now, there is one elite 3B who is not locked up long-term (David Wright). There are quite a few shortstops available in the next few years. That cannot be said for 3B. On the open market, Hardy would get more if he could prove he can play 3B.

And believe me, I've played both 3B and 2B. 3B is more brutal. You basically take a beating every single night between diving for hard hit balls, making long throws across the diamond, and taking hard hit balls off body parts you completely forgot existed.

[Oriole85]

3B is an important position, but I'd still say that SS is a more premium position and I don't think Hardy would increase his value going there. Not that I would be opposed to moving him in the right scenario, most likely Machado.

I'd also say 2B the more brutal position than 3B with all the breaking up of double plays as they tend to be smaller than SS's.

Right now, there is one elite 3B who is not locked up long-term (David Wright). There are quite a few shortstops available in the next few years. That cannot be said for 3B. On the open market, Hardy would get more if he could prove he can play 3B.

And believe me, I've played both 3B and 2B. 3B is more brutal. You basically take a beating every single night between diving for hard hit balls, making long throws across the diamond, and taking hard hit balls off body parts you completely forgot existed.

Do 3B have shorter careers on average than 2B?

[FlavaDave10]

Right now, there is one elite 3B who is not locked up long-term (David Wright). There are quite a few shortstops available in the next few years. That cannot be said for 3B. On the open market, Hardy would get more if he could prove he can play 3B.

And believe me, I've played both 3B and 2B. 3B is more brutal. You basically take a beating every single night between diving for hard hit balls, making long throws across the diamond, and taking hard hit balls off body parts you completely forgot existed.

Do 3B have shorter careers on average than 2B?

No idea how I would find that out, but I would imagine so. Second base is definitely a tough position though. But as far as the physical beating you take, 3B is worse. There's a reason they call it the hot corner.

[Oriole85]

No idea how I would find that out, but I would imagine so. Second base is definitely a tough position though. But as far as the physical beating you take, 3B is worse. There's a reason they call it the hot corner.

Part of my thought process is 3B tend to have more durable bodies than 2B. I agree with your description that 3B is tougher per se than 2B, just that I would think they'd handle it better. I'd probably tell you 50 years ago, SS was tougher before the Cals, Jeters, and Tulos took over.

[FlavaDave10]

No idea how I would find that out, but I would imagine so. Second base is definitely a tough position though. But as far as the physical beating you take, 3B is worse. There's a reason they call it the hot corner.

Part of my thought process is 3B tend to have more durable bodies than 2B. I agree with your description that 3B is tougher per se than 2B, just that I would think they'd handle it better. I'd probably tell you 50 years ago, SS was tougher before the Cals, Jeters, and Tulos took over.

Point taken. I think Hardy would be a better fit at third than second though.

[Oriole85]

Part of my thought process is 3B tend to have more durable bodies than 2B. I agree with your description that 3B is tougher per se than 2B, just that I would think they'd handle it better. I'd probably tell you 50 years ago, SS was tougher before the Cals, Jeters, and Tulos took over.

Point taken. I think Hardy would be a better fit at third than second though.

No disagreement on this as 3B allows him to take advantage of a larger skill set than 2B.

[mweb08]

Reynolds has been activated with Pomeranz going to the DL.

[mweb08]

You don't move your GG caliber SS off of SS during the season. Especially, when the guy who is replacing him could play 3B. If you want to move Hardy off SS, you do it during the off season so he can prepare for 3B.

Otherwise, I agree that a lineup of

3B: Andino
SS: Hardy
DH: Reynolds

is preferable to:

3B: Reynolds
SS: Hardy
DH: Johnson

I agree. It doesn't make sense to move Hardy to 3B this season when Andino has recent and successful experience at 3B. If Machado is expected to be the SS at some point next season, then have Hardy learn 3B or better yet, trade him.

[FlavaDave10]

You don't move your GG caliber SS off of SS during the season. Especially, when the guy who is replacing him could play 3B. If you want to move Hardy off SS, you do it during the off season so he can prepare for 3B.

Otherwise, I agree that a lineup of

3B: Andino
SS: Hardy
DH: Reynolds

is preferable to:

3B: Reynolds
SS: Hardy
DH: Johnson

I agree. It doesn't make sense to move Hardy to 3B this season when Andino has recent and successful experience at 3B. If Machado is expected to be the SS at some point next season, then have Hardy learn 3B or better yet, trade him.

That is probably the best solution for this year. Maybe move Reynolds to 1B.

[mweb08]

It depends on BRob.

If he can't come back and start much or at all at 2B, then I'd rather just go with Reynolds at 3B and hope he steps it up, then there's Tolleson and Flaherty to fill in from time to time.

[JeremyStrain]

You don't move your GG caliber SS off of SS during the season. Especially, when the guy who is replacing him could play 3B. If you want to move Hardy off SS, you do it during the off season so he can prepare for 3B.

Otherwise, I agree that a lineup of

3B: Andino
SS: Hardy
DH: Reynolds

is preferable to:

3B: Reynolds
SS: Hardy
DH: Johnson

I agree. It doesn't make sense to move Hardy to 3B this season when Andino has recent and successful experience at 3B. If Machado is expected to be the SS at some point next season, then have Hardy learn 3B or better yet, trade him.

I agree with the premise, but my thing was that I looked into what would be available in FA for the next 2 years and there is nothing out there at 3B, so why trade a piece and HOPE to get something back you can use there when you can just use your existing pieces to fill that hole. I'm sure between him, Manny and Schoop, one of them will be able to handle it at a better level than Reynolds or Betemit.

[mweb08]

Yeah, it would be fine to keep Hardy for 3B in the future. I just don't see any logic at all in moving him there now.

[JeremyStrain]

Yeah, it would be fine to keep Hardy for 3B in the future. I just don't see any logic at all in moving him there now.

Yeah I was spitballing thinking that next year he'd have to move right about this time of year anyway, so maybe the tradeoff of offense to defense was worth it as bad as it's been this season.

[waroriole]

Yeah, it would be fine to keep Hardy for 3B in the future. I just don't see any logic at all in moving him there now.

Yeah I was spitballing thinking that next year he'd have to move right about this time of year anyway, so maybe the tradeoff of offense to defense was worth it as bad as it's been this season.

You could definitely get more theoretical value by trading Hardy instead of playing him at 3B, but I don't know that it's much better than what we can get by playing him at 3B. His bat plays great at SS, but it also could play great at 3B. He has a pretty decent arm, and enough quickness to think he would be a plus defender over there. I guess it comes down to seeing what the offers would be for Hardy.