186 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

I don't think Norby should be excluded from consideration for playing time either. He has over 200 games now in the upper minors with pretty strong production.

 

Mayo, too.  He'd have to be at 3B, but not sure that's any more questionable than Norby at 2B.  He's the best hitter of the group, IMO.

[BaltBird 24]

I'm all in favor of keeping Holliday in AAA, especially with regard to the extra year service time.

[mweb08]

It's purely service time for me. If I knew he was locked in for 2030 regardless of the decision, then he'd be my Opening Day 2B unless he completely flops in ST. His production through the system last year, scouting reports, and the way they've pushed him tell me enough that I'd go to him right away over starting with Urias and having Holliday produce at Norfolk for a while to prove he's ready. Agree its reasonable to go the other way, but that's how I'd handle it.

Eh, to me he's yet to really earn or prove it. A strong start to the year in AAA with the bat and some further defensive development would change my perspective.

Add the service time element and it's a no brainer to me.

[BaltBird 24]

Needless to say, the Orioles have to figure out what to do with the glutton of prospects they have ready or near ready.

There'd only so many spots for Gunnar, Holliday, Mayo, Basallo, Kjerstad, Cowser, Westburg, Norby, Stowers. Plus you have youngish guys like Mountcastle, Mullins (he stays because he's the only legit CF for now). Obviously guys like Hays and Santander are probably gone.

[mweb08]

Mayo, too. He'd have to be at 3B, but not sure that's any more questionable than Norby at 2B. He's the best hitter of the group, IMO.

Yes, indeed.

Now I will admit to caring about the service time factor with Mayo much more so than Holliday.

[mweb08]

Speaking of Mayo, if he can play a solid 3B, and I think Bob has been on that corner (pun intended and Bob let me know if I'm mistaken), then why would we expect Holliday to be more valuable to the O's in the near future than Mayo? Mayo has 86 more games between AA and AAA than does Holliday and his OPS is roughly 100 points better than Jackson's at those two levels. 

[Mackus]

If Mayo can play a solid 3B then he's ready for MLB.  I am skeptical of that, but mostly because I'm skeptical once there is any talk of moving guys around.  I'm significantly more confident in Holliday's ability to play 2B than I am in Mayo's to play 3B, for what little that is worth.

 

I would think Mayo has better ROY odds than Holliday, however, if he is able to play 3B adequately.

[CantonJester]

Speaking of Mayo, if he can play a solid 3B, and I think Bob has been on that corner (pun intended and Bob let me know if I'm mistaken), then why would we expect Holliday to be more valuable to the O's in the near future than Mayo? Mayo has 86 more games between AA and AAA than does Holliday and his OPS is roughly 100 points better than Jackson's at those two levels. 

 

6’5” and last I knew his fielding is graded at 45 (which is a tic below MLB average). He’s got 1B in his future. 

[mweb08]

6’5” and last I knew his fielding is graded at 45 (which is a tic below MLB average). He’s got 1B in his future. 

 

A tick below average is not a big problem imo if the bat plays like it looks like it might, especially with how the game is played these days. 

[CantonJester]

A tick below average is not a big problem imo if the bat plays like it looks like it might, especially with how the game is played these days. 

 

I'd rather have an athletic 6'5" first baseman when you can slot Gunnar over to 3B (assuming Holliday sticks at SS). Gunnar - Holliday - Westburg - Mayo IMO is the ideal O's IF. Or, if Holliday can't handle SS, then bump Westburg to 3B. 

[mweb08]

I'd rather have an athletic 6'5" first baseman when you can slot Gunnar over to 3B (assuming Holliday sticks at SS). Gunnar - Holliday - Westburg - Mayo IMO is the ideal O's IF. Or, if Holliday can't handle SS, then bump Westburg to 3B. 

 

It would suck to waste Mayo's arm at first, but I could be good with various possible alignments including the one you lay out.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I really need to see Mayo in action at 3b. His ability to stick there would be huge. Im fairly convinced at this point that Gunnar is the main SS for awhile. And by awhile I mean multiple years. Think that only changes if he fills out even more and loses mobility. Dont expect that at his age.


As far as Mayo vs Holliday even in the near future. There are a few things working in Jackson's favor. Most importantly he is left handed. Two, hes got the better pure hit tool. I do think Mayo has a real chance to pass up Westburg as the long term 3b. Westburg is in a lot of ways my most intriguing Oriole for '24.

[russsnyder]

I think a natural SS playing 2B is one of the easier moves you can make as far as positions go to be fair, you need less range, less arm strength, etc while not needing to learn anything new

Everything you say makes sense.

However, Henderson struggled mightily at second. He just didn't look comfortable there. I think web makes a solid point. I think having Holliday play second at Norfolk can perhaps be a win-win. He gets some valuable game experience and the Orioles get some more service time.

[CantonJester]

It would suck to waste Mayo's arm at first, but I could be good with various possible alignments including the one you lay out.

 

Gunnar's got a cannon, and you free up a roster spot if Mayo is your everyday 1B. 

[CantonJester]

I like the fact Mayo bats righty. The team is freakin loaded with lefty hitters (now and coming up). 

[BaltBird 24]

Mountcastle, Hays, Santander, Rutschman, Westburg, Urias all bat RH.

Gunnar and Mullins and eventually Holliday the only strictly LH bats. Cowser and Kjerstad if you wanna throw them in there.

[BobPhelan]

Gunnar's got a cannon, and you free up a roster spot if Mayo is your everyday 1B.

Mayo’s arm is a full grade better than Gunnar’s. And I think he can be a 50 defender at 3B. They had him work out in RF in the offseason but has strictly been 3B in spring. They’re not going to waste him at first base other than to get his bat in games more often. Still have Mountcastle, O’Hearn, Kjerstad, Santander, and eventually Basallo for 1B.

[BobPhelan]

Speaking of Mayo, if he can play a solid 3B, and I think Bob has been on that corner (pun intended and Bob let me know if I'm mistaken), then why would we expect Holliday to be more valuable to the O's in the near future than Mayo? Mayo has 86 more games between AA and AAA than does Holliday and his OPS is roughly 100 points better than Jackson's at those two levels.

Indeed. Personally I feel better with Mayo, Gunnar, Westburg to open the season than Westburg/Urias, Gunnar, Holliday but when I say Jackson makes the team it’s just a gut feeling.

[BobPhelan]

Why not SS for Holliday? Or are they thinking Holliday at 2nd, Gunnar at SS and Westburg at 3rd?

I just don't want to see Westburg be the odd man out again this year.

Because Holliday isn’t ready to play SS at the major league level yet and Gunnar was excellent there in the second half of 2023. He’ll get there but the bat is ahead of the glove, just a speed of the game thing he has the instincts. Arm isn’t great but he gets rid of the ball quick.

[dude]

I have a bunch of comments, including on the article, but was looking for somewhere to put this comment and it will be here.

 

I have posted a thought of comments/thoughts on Holliday already.  There are reasonable expectations and consequences to doing what so many appear willing to hand him and I think that's silly.  He's literally earned nothing.....but at the end of the day, I don't really care.  It's just discussion about what makes sense.  

 

Anyone that wants to hand Jackson Holliday the job, great, his 2024 performance expectation should be around .700 OPS.  Could he do better than that? Sure.  He could do worse too.  Some amazing level of performance would be the least likely outcome sitting here today.  ....and he's giving you nothing back for rushing him to the Majors at 20.

 

I think pushing him into the Majors today is dumb and it has nothing to do with Service.  Development only.

 

...but if they decide to do it, whatever, I hope he does great.