125 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

And its irrelevant if it was neccessary to hit rock bottom and not spend to develop the system we developed. It happened because he made a great hire at GM.

[You Play to Win the Game]

He got lucky. If our infrastructure and results were the same right now as they were before Elias, he wouldn’t care. Guarantee you that. Nothing will move me off that.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

He got lucky. If our infrastructure and results were the same right now as they were before Elias, he wouldn’t care. Guarantee you that. Nothing will move me off that.

Maybe. Probably. You get lucky hitting 8 leg parlays every night. I still credit you for it. 😀

[weird-O]

And its irrelevant if it was neccessary to hit rock bottom and not spend to develop the system we developed. It happened because he made a great hire at GM.

I'm not arguing against your broader point (that John deserves credit for hiring Elias). But a good talent evaluator with a good staff of scouts, doesn't need a rock bottom ML payroll to develop talent. I personally believe there's an advantage to having a higher slot in the draft, but a truly talented GM will find talent at any position in line. I think Elias fits that description.   

[You Play to Win the Game]

Maybe. Probably. You get lucky hitting 8 leg parlays every night. I still credit you for it. 😀

That’s an area where I’m cool being lucky rather than good. But I’m both, and you know it. Just because I rolled the dice on Okie St last night like a moron doesn’t change that lol.

[dude]

All of this is scripted BS to pedestal John Angelos. 

 

One gate.

[BaltBird 24]

All of this is scripted BS to pedestal John Angelos.

One gate.

Shortest Dude post ever.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Shortest Dude post ever.

I would say it was a hack but the content says otherwise

[Ravens2006]

Elias is in a fantastic spot. Knowing that ownership wasn't going to spend real money on major league talent, and knowing there was ZERO pressure from his bosses to even THINK about being competitive at the major league level for many many years... he was in a no lose (personally) position from the day he was hired. His focus was allowed to be 100% on the minors, which is a much less expensive route to acquiring talent. Though with many risks too.

Improve at all on what was maybe the very worst minor league development system in baseball? You win. Make it one of the best? You win big time. Lose 110 games in the majors? Who cares. Overachieve a year "early" (debatable)? Boss says so to the media and still pushes bottom barrel major league payroll. Elias could have his pick of GM positions most likely whenever the time comes... and major league success was never a factor ownership worried about at all. If he failed, eh, whatever... he tried and wasn't supported by the worst ownership group in major league baseball.

These P.R. pieces to put John Angelos on that "pedestal" are frankly disgusting. It's a joke that people who pretend at journalism agree to do them, and a joke that folks publish and share them as if they're legitimate articles.

These are "paid advertisements"...

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Lol. He wants to prove himself as a GM not a farm director or scouting director. The above makes zero sense. He knows he has to win games at the ML level

[You Play to Win the Game]

Lol. He wants to prove himself as a GM not a farm director or scouting director. The above makes zero sense. He knows he has to win games at the ML level

When?

 

He's already stated that this year it's hard to chart a path that has the O's winning the division. He only handed out one year deals this off-season (with the exception of super cheap guys), coming off a year where they almost made a wild card spot and he dealt contributors to that run at the deadline.

 

So when?

 

If the O's win 70 games this year, and 80 next year - do you think Angelos has him on the hot seat after 2024? When do you think Angelos would have a deadlin or a "hot seat" expectation as to when Elias is expected to win?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

He also said they expect to make the playoffs or to contend for the playoffs. Something to that effect.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Lol at thinking a guy with as much ego as Elias doesnt want to win games. Or care to win games. I mean thats anyone at this level. They all have egos. So even if there was no pressure by JA to win there would be the ego part of it. This stupid thought, and thats what it is a stupid thought, that he only cares about hoarding prospects and not about winning at the big league is nonsense that should be laughed off the board if posted

[You Play to Win the Game]

Lol at thinking a guy with as much ego as Elias doesnt want to win games. Or care to win games. I mean thats anyone at this level. They all have egos. So even if there was no pressure by JA to win there would be the ego part of it. This stupid thought, and thats what it is a stupid thought, that he only cares about hoarding prospects and not about winning at the big league is nonsense that should be laughed off the board if posted

If he cared right now, he wouldn't have punted on a playoff spot last year and done nothing this offseason. Nothing stupid at all about that thought. I do think he cares about winning at some point, I'm asking you win that will be? When will the hedging stop? When will the 1-year deals to crap "talent" stop? When do the excuses about the big bad AL East and not having a path to a division championship stop?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Youve also shit on Angelos recently and said he was the issue this offseason. Not Elias. Which is it. The one thing Elias couldve done for sure was trade from within his system to acquire more proven ML talent. My counter to that would be he thinks he has enough guys on the cusp ready to break in that are good that he thinks they will help make us contenders or he wants to establish their value more for trades at the deadline and or next offseason. Maybe both.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

And he didnt punt on a playoff run last offseason. Lopez and Mancini werent that good and that was proven when neither helped their new team. At least from a straight analytical value perspective. The Os werent making the playoffs either way. Or at least their odds didnt change either way.

[Mackus]

Lol at thinking a guy with as much ego as Elias doesnt want to win games. Or care to win games. I mean thats anyone at this level. They all have egos. So even if there was no pressure by JA to win there would be the ego part of it. This stupid thought, and thats what it is a stupid thought, that he only cares about hoarding prospects and not about winning at the big league is nonsense that should be laughed off the board if posted

 

He certainly may care about entering a season with hopes of making the playoffs versus entering a season without any hope, but he's shown that he's in the group that doesn't see any difference between a 50-win season and a 70-win season.  So rightly or wrongly, he doesn't always care about winning games. 

 

Winning games wasn't remotely close to a priority for him in 2019, 2020, 2021, or 2022.  Still doesn't seem all that high of a priority in 2023, certainly more than previous years, but equally certainly not high enough of a priority to commit any resources beyond this coming season.

[Mike B]

I think Elias was shocked by last years success, and I also think he feels like it may have been somewhat of a fluke.  He sold when he was in a pennant race, and he basically treaded water at best this off season.  

He may be right, but from the fan's perspective, it sucks.  I do not think ELias is anywhere near a hot seat, nor should he be.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

He certainly may care about entering a season with hopes of making the playoffs versus entering a season without any hope, but he's shown that he's in the group that doesn't see any difference between a 50-win season and a 70-win season. So rightly or wrongly, he doesn't always care about winning games.

Winning games wasn't remotely close to a priority for him in 2019, 2020, 2021, or 2022. Still doesn't seem all that high of a priority in 2023, certainly more than previous years, but equally certainly not high enough of a priority to commit any resources beyond this coming season.

I dont care about the difference between 50-70. You think Im not as jacked for this season and the coming seasons as Ive been in years. In a lot of ways Im more jacked than I was in the years between 2013-2017. I have expectations now. So does Elias. And he knows he needs to have clubs and players that ultimately perform at the ML level. Even if every single one was an internal gut the only way Elias ultimately gets credit is if they perform well there. Performing well leads to wins.

[Mike B]

And he didnt punt on a playoff run last offseason. Lopez and Mancini werent that good and that was proven when neither helped their new team. At least from a straight analytical value perspective. The Os werent making the playoffs either way. Or at least their odds didnt change either way.

Spin it anyway you want, but yes he punted.