125 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Spin it anyway you want, but yes he punted.

Lol. The odds didnt change. How is it a punt when you go from, Im throwing out random number, 10% to 9%. You can get technical on me and say he lowered the odds with the moves. It wasnt a punt. Thats not punting. Some of you should be PR guys for politicians

[Mackus]

I dont care about the difference between 50-70. You think Im not as jacked for this season and the coming seasons as Ive been in years. In a lot of ways Im more jacked than I was in the years between 2013-2017. I have expectations now. So does Elias. And he knows he needs to have clubs and players that ultimately perform at the ML level. Even if every single one was an internal gut the only way Elias ultimately gets credit is if they perform well there. Performing well leads to wins.

 

I wish Elias cared as much about 2023 as you do.  If he did, we'd have seen better than Gibson, Irvin, and Frazier added to the roster.  

[Mackus]

Lol. The oddd didnt change. How is it a punt when you go from ,Im throwing out random number, 10% to 9%. You can get technical on me and say he lowered the odds with the moves. It wasnt a punt. Thats not punting. Some of you should be PR guys for politicians

 

Ok, he ran a straight handoff on 3rd-and-15.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I wish Elias cared as much about 2023 as you do. If he did, we'd have seen better than Gibson, Irvin, and Frazier added to the roster.

Yeah well the owner just said TB, Cle, and Mil. So sure Elias coulda used up all his payroll space in year 1.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ok, he ran a straight handoff on 3rd-and-15.

In a game where they were down 17 points at the start of the 4th. And I disagree with the analogy anyway. More like he didnt throw the ball beyond the chains on a 4th and 17 and instead checked it down to Ray Rice

[Mike B]

Lol. The oddd didnt change. How is it a punt when you go from ,Im throwing out random number, 10% to 9%. You can get technical on me and say he lowered the odds with the moves. It wasnt a punt. Thats not punting. Some of you should be PR guys for politicians

LOL, You should know about PR guys, because you have been Elias's for a couple of years now.

 

You trade 2 key players, when your team was a few games out of the last WC spot.  That is a punt.  You can run down Trey and Lopez, all you want, but they were integral to the Orioles success last year. 

That said he is working his plan and is not going to be rushed, which is clearly fine with his boss.  Time will tell, if the return for all the losing, proves worthwhile.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Classifying it as a punt is just wrong and you know it.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I do not think ELias is anywhere near a hot seat, nor should he be.

 

For sure he's not. His seat isn't even warm. His boss asks just two things of him; work with one of the lowest payrolls in the league year after year, but tell everyone I give you whatever you ask for. In exchange, there are no expectations of fielding a winning team, and thus Elias will never be evaluated on that and can focus all his attention on what he enjoys most: player development.

 

I do think as more of his prospects hit the majors and have success, Elias is going to want to win and make the playoffs. It's human nature. But it's going to require more money from ownership. Publicly he has stated he'll get that money. John Angelos is hedging on that big time, and his track record says it ain't happening. I'd love to know whether Elias is truly as confident in ownership as he publicly leads us to believe.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

For sure he's not. His seat isn't even warm. His boss asks just two things of him; work with one of the lowest payrolls in the league year after year, but tell everyone I give you whatever you ask for. In exchange, there are no expectations of fielding a winning team, and thus Elias will never be evaluated on that and can focus all his attention on what he enjoys most: player development.

I do think as more of his prospects hit the majors and have success, Elias is going to want to win and make the playoffs. It's human nature. But it's going to require more money from ownership. Publicly he has stated he'll get that money. John Angelos is hedging on that big time, and his track record says it ain't happening. I'd love to know whether Elias is truly as confident in ownership as he publicly leads us to believe.

Didnt he have things put in his contract. Assurances. We dont know everything that covered in that contract. Bigger picture here is he shouldn't trust JA to significantly increase payroll. Even if John told him we can be a future Milwaukee, who was 19th in payroll last year, he should doubt that.

[Mike B]

For sure he's not. His seat isn't even warm. His boss asks just two things of him; work with one of the lowest payrolls in the league year after year, but tell everyone I give you whatever you ask for. In exchange, there are no expectations of fielding a winning team, and thus Elias will never be evaluated on that and can focus all his attention on what he enjoys most: player development.

 

I do think as more of his prospects hit the majors and have success, Elias is going to want to win and make the playoffs. It's human nature. But it's going to require more money from ownership. Publicly he has stated he'll get that money. John Angelos is hedging on that big time, and his track record says it ain't happening. I'd love to know whether Elias is truly as confident in ownership as he publicly leads us to believe.

Elias is a pretty smart man, so my guess is that he is not as confident as he says about JA and the financial commitment that he will eventually want.

[Mike B]

Classifying it as a punt is just wrong and you know it.

Well if you say so, it must be true.

 

Maybe you prefer the word, surrender?

[BSLMikeLowe]

Didnt he have things put in his contract. Assurances. We dont know everything that covered in that contract. Bigger picture here is he shouldn't trust JA to significantly increase payroll. Even if John told him we can be a future Milwaukee, who was 19th in payroll last year, he should doubt that.

 

The only thing we can confidently say about his contract, per court filings, is that he has autonomy to run baseball operations. I can't imagine there would be any specific monetary commitment from ownership in there.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Elias is a pretty smart man, so my guess is that he is not as confident as he says about JA and the financial commitment that he will eventually want.

 

That's pretty much where I am. I'd be interested to know how long Elias has before he would be free to seek opportunities elsewhere, with more committed ownership. But Angelos guards contract terms like state secrets.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The only thing we can confidently say about his contract, per court filings, is that he has autonomy to run baseball operations. I can't imagine there would be any specific monetary commitment from ownership in there.

Agreed.

[Mackus]

Yeah well the owner just said TB, Cle, and Mil. So sure Elias coulda used up all his payroll space in year 1.

 

Bassitt and Abreu don't limit any future payroll flexibility.  The young core is dirt cheap for multiple seasons.  Plenty of smart, shorter-term deals were out there.  I'd have liked to commit one or two of the really big deals, but even without that there was a wide chasm between what he actually did and the varied possibilities of what someone who cares a lot about winning in 2023 could've done.

 

He clearly and obviously isn't highly prioritizing the 2023 season.  He hopes to make the playoffs, sure, and maybe if we get great development from younger guys and/or continued production from guys we didn't expect much from then we can.  But that's an unfunded mandate.  Its all on the players with (very close to) zero help from management.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

He made a real play for Bassitt. Weve been there a million times. As I said, he certainly couldve traded off more internal assets for proven MLB talent. If thats the criticism then thats fine with me. Im also fine with him not doing it and saving it for the deadline and or hoping that talent on the cusp can contribute to the '23 team

[You Play to Win the Game]

If they legit won 60 games the next two years, he wouldn’t be close to on the hot seat. He’s competent, so they won’t. I’ve bought into what’s happening here. All of it… ALLLLLLL of it is in spite of Angelos. Just want to bring this back full circle. This is the point that keeps getting avoided. Tell me with a straight face Angelos would actually look to upgrade at GM if the major league performance through 2024 included another couple hundred losses. You can’t. We all know there’s literally nothing Elias could do, except for spend money, to draw Angelos’ ire.

[You Play to Win the Game]

You get more credit for genuinely in your heart wanting to win and hiring Andy MacPhail than you do when your ONLY motivation is profits and you luck into Elias. Intentions matter. It couldn’t be clearer what Angelos’s are.

[weird-O]

Youve also shit on Angelos recently and said he was the issue this offseason. Not Elias. Which is it. The one thing Elias couldve done for sure was trade from within his system to acquire more proven ML talent. My counter to that would be he thinks he has enough guys on the cusp ready to break in that are good that he thinks they will help make us contenders or he wants to establish their value more for trades at the deadline and or next offseason. Maybe both.

This is just more of you changing your opinion to align with his lack of activity. 

[weird-O]

And he didnt punt on a playoff run last offseason. Lopez and Mancini werent that good and that was proven when neither helped their new team. At least from a straight analytical value perspective. The Os werent making the playoffs either way. Or at least their odds didnt change either way.

False, they were good while with the O's, and important contributors to team in a post season hunt. This is hindsight.