125 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Industry standard? Lol.

They are on par with the rest of baseball now.

Congratulations Orioles, for finally doing what everyone else does.

Lol is right. Go listen to the players who come over who improve and tell you how the Os are doing things their previous orgs didnt do. Both minors and major leagues there are examples. People need to listen when these players speak.

[Mike in STL]

Lol is right. Go listen to the players who come over who improve and tell you how the Os are doing things their previous orgs didnt do. Both minors and major leagues there are examples. People need to listen when these players speak.

Got any examples? Links?

Big picture stuff, everyone is on the analytics train, everyone has a nerd cave. Everyone has a DR facility. Everyone uses high speed cameras. Everyone dabbles in the international pool.

They were the last to the party on all this stuff, and I give Elias credit for getting these things done that seem like the bare minimum a team should be doing. It wasn’t long ago Zach Britton was traded to the Yankees and commented that he never had been shown “film study” before.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Got any examples? Links?

Big picture stuff, everyone is on the analytics train, everyone has a nerd cave. Everyone has a DR facility. Everyone uses high speed cameras. Everyone dabbles in the international pool.

They were the last to the party on all this stuff, and I give Elias credit for getting these things done that seem like the bare minimum a team should be doing. It wasn’t long ago Zach Britton was traded to the Yankees and commented that he never had been shown “film study” before.

Its all out there go find it. Im sure Phelan would agree and he clearly has his ears to the ground at least for the minor league guys whove come over from other orgs

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Since its BSL content I will point you in the right direction. Read and listen to some of the OTV content and some of the interviews they've conducted.

 

 

As I stated in my initial post, the Os arent ahead in all areas. Still prob behind Internationally. Have come a long way but it takes time to develop relationships. I think its clear they are ahead in some areas though and that is a welcome change from the last at least 35 years going back into the 80s

[Mike in STL]

Since its BSL content I will point you in the right direction. Read and listen to some of the OTV content and some of the interviews they've conducted.

 

 

As I stated in my initial post, the Os arent ahead in all areas. Still prob behind Internationally. Have come a long way but it takes time to develop relationships. I think its clear they are ahead in some areas though and that is a welcome change from the last at least 35 years going back into the 80s

I'm gonna be honest, I misread your initial post. I thought you said the Orioles are the industry standard.

 

My bad. 

 

I agree then. They have gotten better in plenty of areas. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

John Angelos’s only goal when Elias was hired was saving money and ridding debts.

The only way he could get Elias was to relinquish control (hence the guarantee in his contract of autonomy). Elias calls the baseball ops shots and doesn’t spend money - John stays out of things and gets wealthier.

That’s the arrangement. Period.

He got lucky that Elias and his team are as competent as they are, but I guarantee you he wouldn’t care if they weren’t. The KPI for Angelos is the bottom line, that’s it.

So no, there is no defense of this man whatsoever. There will never be a more clear example of a blind cat finding a mouse. That’s what happened here. Angelos is awful.

[BSLMikeLowe]

John Angelos’s only goal when Elias was hired was saving money and ridding debts. Period.

The only way he could get Elias was to relinquish control (hence the guarantee in his contract of autonomy). Elias calls the baseball ops shots and doesn’t spend money - John stays out of things and gets wealthier.

That’s the arrangement. Period.

He got lucky that Elias and his team are as competent as they are, but I guarantee you he wouldn’t care if they weren’t. The KPI for Angelos is the bottom line, that’s it.

So no, there is no defense of this man whatsoever. There will never be a more clear example of a blind cat finding a mouse. That’s what happened here. Angelos is awful.

And at some point, Elias is gonna want to keep a couple of these guys when they approach free agency. I don’t think it will end well.

[weird-O]

And at some point, Elias is gonna want to keep a couple of these guys when they approach free agency. I don’t think it will end well.

Any O's fan who still believes the Angelos family will increase payroll, is a hopeless dreamer. While the MASN suit is real, it's also an awesome excuse not to invest in the ML roster. The family squabble serves the same purpose. There's always an excuse for not spending money to legitimately compete. And if there isn't, just create one out of thin air. 

 

John: Hey Lou

Lou: What's up Bro

John: File a suit against Mom and me

Lou: Brilliant! What should I include?

John: Be creative, let your imagination flow. Just be sure to include something about me moving the team to Nashville.  

[BSLMikeLowe]

Any O's fan who still believes the Angelos family will increase payroll, is a hopeless dreamer. While the MASN suit is real, it's also an awesome excuse not to invest in the ML roster. The family squabble serves the same purpose. There's always an excuse for not spending money to legitimately compete. And if there isn't, just create one out of thin air. 

 

John: Hey Lou

Lou: What's up Bro

John: File a suit against Mom and me

Lou: Brilliant! What should I include?

John: Be creative, let your imagination flow. Just be sure to include something about me moving the team to Nashville.  

 

More like:

 

Georgia: Now boys, you know your father wanted the team and the firm sold when he dies so I'll have enough money to live comfortably the rest of my life.

John: But maaaaahhh! What am I gonna do? If someone else owns the team, I gotta go find a real job. And you know I'm not smart enough to pass the bar exam.

Georgia: Well, okay. But we still have to sell the firm.

Lou: Waaaaaaahhhhh!!! I'm gonna sue!!!

 

7 months later...

 

Georgia: OK, enough is enough you two. Lou, we'll keep the firm too and you can run it.

John/Lou: Yay!!!! [hi-fives] Don't worry ma, we'll make sure to set aside enough money to stick you in some nursing home.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

John Angelos’s only goal when Elias was hired was saving money and ridding debts.

The only way he could get Elias was to relinquish control (hence the guarantee in his contract of autonomy). Elias calls the baseball ops shots and doesn’t spend money - John stays out of things and gets wealthier.

That’s the arrangement. Period.

He got lucky that Elias and his team are as competent as they are, but I guarantee you he wouldn’t care if they weren’t. The KPI for Angelos is the bottom line, that’s it.

So no, there is no defense of this man whatsoever. There will never be a more clear example of a blind cat finding a mouse. That’s what happened here. Angelos is awful.

This organization is in a place from a player development and farm system POV they havent been in our lifetime because he convinced a wanted man to come to Baltimore. He gets credit for that hire. This blind cat finding a mouse narrative just isnt fair. Plenty to criticize him for and no one will disagree that overall the negative outweighs the good. Stick to all the ammo he gives you and stop dismissing the good

[You Play to Win the Game]

That analogy is completely fair. What isn’t fair is forcing your GM into punting on a playoff run (not literally forcing him, but Elias knows he has no financial commitment from ownership), then not allowing him any substantial payroll investment to the point where he’s comfortable signing guys beyond 1 year, with a core this good. Yeah, he’s shown who he is and what he’s about.

So, there isn’t a board rule that you can’t take the ammo he’s given and speculate as to what it could mean - I think that’s the fun part. Projecting and guessing based on what we do know. Based on that, fully comfortable with where I’m at and it’s completely fair.

[Mackus]

I'm content to give ownership, specifically John though Lou was at least involved in the publicity of the hire, credit for bringing in Elias.

 

I don't think that does very much to move the needle up from awful on the ownership-respect scale though, for John individually or the Angelos family more generally.  Need a lot more good to outweigh that bad, and almost every trend since hiring Elias has remained in the bad bucket.  Especially if we believe that Elias has full baseball ops control aside from raw budget, and as such it'd be him given the credit for funding the international efforts and spending their full nut on the draft in 2022 (though all of that has been needlessly at the expense of some ridiculous cheaping out on the MLB side of things due to ownership greed).

[TwentyThirtyFive]

He made a hire that has put this team on the brink of consistent contention.  Now, we can speculate how he will F it up going forward but the fact remains there is a a player development program and farm system in place  no one here has ever seen. UNless you are 50+ yrs old

[Mackus]

He's effed it up already since hiring Elias. The reason the team won 50 games a year for 3 years if because the budget was so low. That wasn't a requirement of developing a DR facility. It was just pure stupidity due to cheapness and greed.

[mweb08]

I think Elias likes it this way too.

[Mackus]

Lol, I really can't believe we've got Angelos defense going on in this or any thread.

[Mackus]

I think Elias likes it this way too.

Meaning no expectations?

Or the building stage rather than the winning stage?

[BSLMikeLowe]

Meaning no expectations?

Or the building stage rather than the winning stage?

 

I'll let mweb answer for himself, but I imagine Elias was content with both of those as conditions for a rock-bottom payroll.

 

But as a MLB executive, Elias knows there will come a time when winning is all that matters....maybe not to John, but to the rest of the baseball world. And for himself. What's the point otherwise?

 

And as I said above, I think Elias has an expectation that at some point he will get money to spend, whether it's keeping the players that developed under him or bringing in other ones. He seems to believe he has some sort of commitment from John that the money will be there. I hope he got that in writing, with as much specificity as possible, because if all he's relying on is the word of John Angelos, we know what that's worth.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Lol, I really can't believe we've got Angelos defense going on in this or any thread.

Not what it is at all. Its exactly what I said it was and you agreed. End of story

[mweb08]

Meaning no expectations?

Or the building stage rather than the winning stage?

Yes to the first part. Rebuilding or tanking or whatever you want to call it with ownership totally on board comes with amazing job security.

And sure, I know people will say he could get a job tomorrow if he were fired, which is true. However, the quality of that job and the pay he'd command at this point wouldn't be the same if instead he had taken a job with now unfulfilled expectations of winning within the first 5 years.

He's made ownership incredibly happy during this time while building something that he can both be proud of and put on his resume. It's a tremendous win win for their goals during this time.

As for the 2nd part, my guess is yes to that as well. I'm highly skeptical of the budget being as miniscule as the spending would indicate. Beyond that, I also believe it's been said (maybe by him?) that the building of a franchise is his passion moreso than the winning stage. Correct me if I'm mistaken on that.