347 replies to this topic

[weird-O]

For better or for worse, the quarterback touches the ball on virtually every play and he will get either all the credit or all the blame. Lest we forget how polarizing Joe Flacco was amongst the fanbase despite being an integral part of the success of the franchise for a decade.

 

Albeit, as TwentyThirtyFive said, there's the race factor with Lamar and unfortunately, that does cloud people's judgement; subconsciously or otherwise.

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but Joe only became a topic of extreme debate, after his extension. And that debate was is he or is ne not elite. I'm honestly afraid of what Ravens discussions will look like, if he gets the deal he wants. I may have to step away from this part of BSL for a few years

[weird-O]

By some. The way I remember it, was many, many people saying he wasn’t a real QB. Couldn’t win a big game. Stuff like that. IIRC, that win at Lambeau quieted a lot of critics.

I had similar meltdowns with Flacco before he went on the run. So it has nothing to do with style for me, whatsoever. Personality wise, I love Lamar and I think this team loves him too.

Standing by this current situation and structure and system isn’t championship caliber. So what if that makes me a terrible human.

There's been at least one article saying the team isn't maximizing his talents. I'm not the most well informed football fan, but that sounds right to me.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but Joe only became a topic of extreme debate, after his extension. And that debate was is he or is ne not elite. I'm honestly afraid of what Ravens discussions will look like, if he gets the deal he wants. I may have to step away from this part of BSL for a few years

Joe started getting heat after year 3 IIRC. He went to the AFC Championship Game his rookie year. But the next two years lost in the divisional round. I remember at that time, a lot of Ravens fans started questioning if he’d be able to get over the hump. Very similar to what’s going on here. You’re right though, that the Super Bowl glow didn’t last long. Once he got paid and his play slipped, people were ready to move on.

[makoman]

I don't have stats to back this up but I feel like he was throwing the ball as well or perhaps even better to begin last season for the first 6-7 games.  Things definitely tailed off after that, but 6-7 games isn't like getting hot for 2 quarters.  Its a significant chunk, and it wasn't just a flash because we've seen it from him for extended stretches before in 2019.

 

I don't think I expect him to be a top-level passer of the deep ball consistently, but I do think he's capable of being very good to great with the arm all things considered, and when you then add in what he brings running the ball on top of that I think it remains a relatively easy choice to prefer an extension to the alternative.

Through Minnesota, or 8 games, he had a 65.0% completion %, 2209 yards, 13 TD, 7 Int, 96.2 rating, 8.3 yards/att. Also ran for 600 yards on 6.2 yards/att. 

 

2019, in 15 games, was 66.1%, 3127 yards, 36 TD, 6 int, 113.3 rating, 7.8 yards/att. Ran for 1206 yards, 6.9 yards/att. 83.0 QBR was 4th all time. I don't know how to get partial year QBR for last year.

 

2019 was crazy with the TD and INT percentages, but you're right that he was doing well last year. Oh, also 23 sacks in all of 2019, 24 in those 8 games of 2021.

 

If you wanted to stop at the Colts game, or 5 games, he had 67%, 1519 yards, 9.10 y/att, 104.4 rating. That’s a pretty small sample, but very good.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Through Minnesota, or 8 games, he had a 65.0% completion %, 2209 yards, 13 TD, 7 Int, 96.2 rating, 8.3 yards/att. Also ran for 600 yards on 6.2 yards/att.

2019, in 15 games, was 66.1%, 3127 yards, 36 TD, 6 int, 113.3 rating, 7.8 yards/att. Ran for 1206 yards, 6.9 yards/att. 83.0 QBR was 4th all time. I don't know how to get partial year QBR for last year.

2019 was crazy with the TD and INT percentages, but you're right that he was doing well last year. Oh, also 23 sacks in all of 2019, 24 in those 8 games of 2021.

If you wanted to stop at the Colts game, or 5 games, he had 67%, 1519 yards, 9.10 y/att, 104.4 rating. That’s a pretty small sample, but very good.

OL def took a step back last year and it hurt him a bit. Obviously retread RBs as well. Id have to look over all the games to remember more specifically but yes his play dropped off a bit from the 1st 5 weeks. Still when he went down for good his overall grade was in the B range.


Slidemaster has been a hater pretty much from the jump. Certainly since the Lamar decison of 2020 not to get the vaccine. Very strong and overboard language directed at Lamar during that time and since

[PrimeTime]

Joe started getting heat after year 3 IIRC. He went to the AFC Championship Game his rookie year. But the next two years lost in the divisional round. I remember at that time, a lot of Ravens fans started questioning if he’d be able to get over the hump. Very similar to what’s going on here. You’re right though, that the Super Bowl glow didn’t last long. Once he got paid and his play slipped, people were ready to move on.

 

Interesting to note that in 5 drafts after the Super Bowl title, the Ravens only use 4 day 1 and day 2 picks on offense. So you give your QB a record contract, then make no real effort to build up the talent around him. It seems that the organization is repeating the same pattern. 

 

I have t-shirt with a headline from The Onion that reads, "History sighs, repeats itself.".....seems apropos here. 

[jamesdean]

Interesting to note that in 5 drafts after the Super Bowl title, the Ravens only use 4 day 1 and day 2 picks on offense. So you give your QB a record contract, then make no real effort to build up the talent around him. It seems that the organization is repeating the same pattern. 

 

I have t-shirt with a headline from The Onion that reads, "History sighs, repeats itself.".....seems apropos here. 

The more I think about it and the more this team fails to impress me, I tend to agree with you going forward.  As much as I've loved Lamar as our quarterback, for the overall good of this organization, I'm afraid it's going to be time to cut him loose.  But if they don't get at least 2 No. 1 picks, it will be unforgiveable.  That said, I do think they've done a good job of surrounding Lamar with solid offensive talent.  They just can't stay healthy. 

[makoman]

The more I think about it and the more this team fails to impress me, I tend to agree with you going forward.  As much as I've loved Lamar as our quarterback, for the overall good of this organization, I'm afraid it's going to be time to cut him loose.  But if they don't get at least 2 No. 1 picks, it will be unforgiveable.  That said, I do think they've done a good job of surrounding Lamar with solid offensive talent.  They just can't stay healthy. 

They can sign him to the non-exclusive franchise tag, announce he's on the open market, and they'll have two firsts by rule in less than two weeks. If they are going to get rid of him I'd hope they can do better.

 

They've done a fine job surrounding him with RBs, TEs, and linemen, but like you said injuries took a big toll. They've at least somewhat tried at WR (two 1sts, two 3rds, a few other picks since 2019), but it just hasn't worked out. If only they'd gotten Hopkins or Diggs.

[mdrunning]

They can sign him to the non-exclusive franchise tag, announce he's on the open market, and they'll have two firsts by rule in less than two weeks. If they are going to get rid of him I'd hope they can do better.

 

They've done a fine job surrounding him with RBs, TEs, and linemen, but like you said injuries took a big toll. They've at least somewhat tried at WR (two 1sts, two 3rds, a few other picks since 2019), but it just hasn't worked out. If only they'd gotten Hopkins or Diggs.

All true, but that's assuming he signs the tender. I also wonder how many teams will make a pitch and how quickly. If he's still insisting on fully-guaranteed money, they may be reluctant to burn two first-rounders on what might turn out to be a one-year rental.

[makoman]

All true, but that's assuming he signs the tender. I also wonder how many teams will make a pitch and how quickly. If he's still insisting on fully-guaranteed money, they may be reluctant to burn two first-rounders on what might turn out to be a one-year rental.

Another team wouldn’t burn the picks unless they actually signed him, and presumably that’d be a longer deal.

Most players don’t want to play on the tag, but they aren’t de facto FAs either. I don’t see why he wouldn’t sign it, since unlike most tagged players he could probably get an offer from somebody.

[Mackus]

All true, but that's assuming he signs the tender. I also wonder how many teams will make a pitch and how quickly. If he's still insisting on fully-guaranteed money, they may be reluctant to burn two first-rounders on what might turn out to be a one-year rental.

There is no chance he's being traded while on the franchise tag without an extension. he'll be allowed to negotiate a trade & extension, if a trade is something the Ravens are pursuing.

[mdrunning]

Another team wouldn’t burn the picks unless they actually signed him, and presumably that’d be a longer deal.

Most players don’t want to play on the tag, but they aren’t de facto FAs either. I don’t see why he wouldn’t sign it, since unlike most tagged players he could probably get an offer from somebody.

You're right. I misspoke a bit previously.

[mdrunning]

There is no chance he's being traded while on the franchise tag without an extension. he'll be allowed to negotiate a trade & extension, if a trade is something the Ravens are pursuing.

I agree that we probably won't see something like the Chiefs trading for Orlando Brown, or Arizona trading for Hollywood, both of which involved guys who didn't (and don't) have extensions in place. The dollars in Lamar's case are just too big for it to play out any other way. 

[bmore_ken]

That said, I do think they've done a good job of surrounding Lamar with solid offensive talent. They just can't stay healthy.

While I agree with that. If you want to make $50M a year, you have to overcome that. As much as people hate Brady, he wasn't
generally surrounded by all pro receivers and backs in NE.

[hallas]

While I agree with that. If you want to make $50M a year, you have to overcome that. As much as people hate Brady, he wasn't
generally surrounded by all pro receivers and backs in NE.

 

uh, he never had good RBs but he's had some really good receivers.  Moss came through, he had the best tight end in a generation for about 8 years, Welker and Edelman were all good players.

[Slidemaster]

uh, he never had good RBs but he's had some really good receivers. Moss came through, he had the best tight end in a generation for about 8 years, Welker and Edelman were all good players.

I think its pretty likely Welker and Edelman aren't Welker or Edelman without Brady.

[Ravens2006]

Brady is / was a different level than everyone else overall. Accuracy and quick decision making at the line or at the snap. Always a good enough O line in front of him to allow him to do what he wanted to do. Would lay in to anyone (friend or not) who blew an assignment or ran a bad route. The attention to detail around him, and driven BY him, takes him to a different category than all the rest that have played in his era.

[PrimeTime]

While I agree with that. If you want to make $50M a year, you have to overcome that. As much as people hate Brady, he wasn't
generally surrounded by all pro receivers and backs in NE.

 

The other QBs didn't have the Spygate system in place and Ernie Adams in the booth to call the right plays. 

[bmore_ken]

uh, he never had good RBs but he's had some really good receivers.  Moss came through, he had the best tight end in a generation for about 8 years, Welker and Edelman were all good players.

He had Moss one year. Welker and Edelman weren't world beaters by any stretch. Decent guys , but not special and I'll give you Gronk. Beyond that he made do with average to below average receivers.

[bmore_ken]

I think its pretty likely Welker and Edelman aren't Welker or Edelman without Brady.

Agreed.