347 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

That said, there are too many cases this year, when he ignored the open man, so he could tuck and run.

 

This is wild.  Other people here criticize him for staying in the pocket and not taking yards on the ground.  Lamar's gonna get criticized by 1/3 of the fanbase no matter what choice he makes.

[Slidemaster]

One point for Lamar this year is that, according to the stats I saw, he is dealing with almost twice as many drops this year as he did last.

[Slidemaster]

For everyone bringing up his weak receiver room as well, I think it's fair to point out that elite receivers don't want to play in this offense. Hollywood Brown alluded to that on his way out the door.

[makoman]

This is wild.  Other people here criticize him for staying in the pocket and not taking yards on the ground.  Lamar's gonna get criticized by 1/3 of the fanbase no matter what choice he makes.

Yeah, if anything I'd say he's holding the ball too much this year, but I don't have statistical support either way.

[Mike in STL]

PFFs Accuracy % ignores throw aways, spikes, batted balls, drops. LJ is 22nd out of 29. Mahomes who I consider the gold standard for comps, is 8th. There is. 3.6% difference there. So in a span of 100 passes Mahomes will throw 3 to 4 more passes on target. What’s that, like 1 a game? And if that 1 is a checkdown, how much does that matter?

Everyone at this level can throw it.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

This is wild. Other people here criticize him for staying in the pocket and not taking yards on the ground. Lamar's gonna get criticized by 1/3 of the fanbase no matter what choice he makes.

Preach though its probably closer to 50%

[weird-O]

I wonder why LJ is such a polarizing figure among Ravens fans?   

[You Play to Win the Game]

I wonder why LJ is such a polarizing figure among Ravens fans?

It’s brutally unfair, and I’m a terrible human, but he did this to himself with his insane 2019 season. They didn’t win. Now they’ve taken steps backwards, and that is hard to take.

But the more I try and take a step back, it’s not Lamar. It’s the org overall right now. This approach isn’t working. 2035 will throw around DVOA, but that’s not what that silver trophy is called at the end of the year and you can’t convince me this system is good enough to win 3-4 tough playoff games at this point.

[Slidemaster]

It’s brutally unfair, and I’m a terrible human, but he did this to himself with his insane 2019 season. They didn’t win. Now they’ve taken steps backwards, and that is hard to take.

But the more I try and take a step back, it’s not Lamar. It’s the org overall right now. This approach isn’t working. 2035 will throw around DVOA, but that’s not what that silver trophy is called at the end of the year and you can’t convince me this system is good enough to win 3-4 tough playoff games at this point.

I'm in a similar place. I am not against extending Lamar. I'm against this team operating like it is for the next 5-6 years, and a Lamar extension at the price it will take almost guarantees it.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I wonder why LJ is such a polarizing figure among Ravens fans?   

Hes black and plays an unconventional style

[Mackus]

Who would the likely buyers be if we're gonna trade Lamar?

 

Texans (Browns) and Lions (Denver) each have two picks in the first and a bunch of cap space available.  Jets and Panthers would also seem to be interested but they've only got one 1st and not a ton of cap space.  Colts would make sense, only have their pick but lots of cap space.

 

Watson trade was for 3 firsts (current and next two years), a 3rd, and a 4th two years in the future.

Wilson trade was for 2 firsts (current and next year) and two 2nds (current and next year), and a 5th.

 

If you hit him with the non-exclusive tag for something like $32M you get 2 firsts (current and next year) if he signs elsewhere.

[jamesdean]

It’s brutally unfair, and I’m a terrible human, but he did this to himself with his insane 2019 season. They didn’t win. Now they’ve taken steps backwards, and that is hard to take.

But the more I try and take a step back, it’s not Lamar. It’s the org overall right now. This approach isn’t working. 2035 will throw around DVOA, but that’s not what that silver trophy is called at the end of the year and you can’t convince me this system is good enough to win 3-4 tough playoff games at this point.

Would have to agree about 2019.  Not so much his running the ball but he definitely had an outlier year passing.  Seriously doubt we'll ever see that again from him.  That was his career year.  I think he's polarized because he plays quarterback.  Simple as that.  It would be the same situation if he played elsewhere.  Plus, he was revolutionary and changed how quarterbacks play the game and because he set the standard, it's understandable he's going to get scrutinized. Maybe it's unfair but he'll just have to take it if he wants to the big bucks.  Comes with the territory.  Can you imagine the local heat Russell Wilson is taking right now? 

[hallas]

PFFs Accuracy % ignores throw aways, spikes, batted balls, drops. LJ is 22nd out of 29. Mahomes who I consider the gold standard for comps, is 8th. There is. 3.6% difference there. So in a span of 100 passes Mahomes will throw 3 to 4 more passes on target. What’s that, like 1 a game? And if that 1 is a checkdown, how much does that matter?

Everyone at this level can throw it.

 

 

The difference between him being the best QB in the league this year and not is pretty much all in his deep ball accuracy.  His adjusted % on deep balls is absolutely atrocious.  He's ranked 32nd out of 39 qbs with at least 12 deep attempts, at 31.9%.

 

He's been money on mid range balls so if he completed deep balls at a rate closer to average he'd probably be the best qb in the league this year.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Who would the likely buyers be if we're gonna trade Lamar?

Texans (Browns) and Lions (Denver) each have two picks in the first and a bunch of cap space available. Jets and Panthers would also seem to be interested but they've only got one 1st and not a ton of cap space. Colts would make sense, only have their pick but lots of cap space.

Watson trade was for 3 firsts (current and next two years), a 3rd, and a 4th two years in the future.
Wilson trade was for 2 firsts (current and next year) and two 2nds (current and next year), and a 5th.

If you hit him with the non-exclusive tag for something like $32M you get 2 firsts (current and next year) if he signs elsewhere.

I understand why you want to talk about it but I refuse. Lol

[Mackus]

Would have to agree about 2019.  Not so much his running the ball but he definitely had an outlier year passing.  Seriously doubt we'll ever see that again from him.  

 

I don't have stats to back this up but I feel like he was throwing the ball as well or perhaps even better to begin last season for the first 6-7 games.  Things definitely tailed off after that, but 6-7 games isn't like getting hot for 2 quarters.  Its a significant chunk, and it wasn't just a flash because we've seen it from him for extended stretches before in 2019.

 

I don't think I expect him to be a top-level passer of the deep ball consistently, but I do think he's capable of being very good to great with the arm all things considered, and when you then add in what he brings running the ball on top of that I think it remains a relatively easy choice to prefer an extension to the alternative.

[PrimeTime]

For better or for worse, the quarterback touches the ball on virtually every play and he will get either all the credit or all the blame. Lest we forget how polarizing Joe Flacco was amongst the fanbase despite being an integral part of the success of the franchise for a decade.

 

Albeit, as TwentyThirtyFive said, there's the race factor with Lamar and unfortunately, that does cloud people's judgement; subconsciously or otherwise.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

For better or for worse, the quarterback touches the ball on virtually every play and he will get either all the credit or all the blame. Lest we forget how polarizing Joe Flacco was amongst the fanbase despite being an integral part of the success of the franchise for a decade.

 

Albeit, as TwentyThirtyFive said, there's the race factor with Lamar and unfortunately, that does cloud people's judgement; subconsciously or otherwise.

I do think its the style more then being black but still its a factor.

[weird-O]

Hes black and plays an unconventional style

I'm not going to dismiss this. But I will say that Vick was black and played an unconventional style, and he was idolized, before the dog fighting story broke. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It’s brutally unfair, and I’m a terrible human, but he did this to himself with his insane 2019 season. They didn’t win. Now they’ve taken steps backwards, and that is hard to take.

But the more I try and take a step back, it’s not Lamar. It’s the org overall right now. This approach isn’t working. 2035 will throw around DVOA, but that’s not what that silver trophy is called at the end of the year and you can’t convince me this system is good enough to win 3-4 tough playoff games at this point.

NHL gives out a reg season trophy. No reason why the NFL cant give out a PFF trophy.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'm not going to dismiss this. But I will say that Vick was black and played an unconventional style, and he was idolized, before the dog fighting story broke.

By some. The way I remember it, was many, many people saying he wasn’t a real QB. Couldn’t win a big game. Stuff like that. IIRC, that win at Lambeau quieted a lot of critics.

I had similar meltdowns with Flacco before he went on the run. So it has nothing to do with style for me, whatsoever. Personality wise, I love Lamar and I think this team loves him too.

Standing by this current situation and structure and system isn’t championship caliber. So what if that makes me a terrible human.