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BSL: Lamar Jackson. Step Up, or Step Out.


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#221 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 10:27 AM

I tend to agree with you but maybe they don't practice it as much as we might suspect.  I just can't believe Lamar is that blatantly inaccurate on those passes.  Makes no sense to me at all. 

 

There were accuracy concerns for Jackson coming out of college. He did improve year over year but his career comp % at Louisville was 57% and if I recall correctly, against top 25 teams he was under 50%. You can attribute some of that to lesser talented receivers dropping more passes but it could be that this is just Lamar Jackson as a passer. When you see his inconsistent mechanics and his propensity to go to the sidearm sling when it's not needed, you can understand why the inconsistency exists.


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#222 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 10:30 AM

This is why I was making the point that we don’t fully know what we have in our WR room. Just look at that play design. Total incompetence. This isn’t the same as saying the Ravens WR’s can do what the Eagles do. That was never my point. Just that Baltimore is where WR’s go to die relative to the rest of the league.

 

The only time we really saw WRs schemed open here was the Kubiak year. In Cam's system it was always iso routes and go make a play. When we had Trestman and Morninhweg it was West Coast, quick slants and what not. Now with Roman, it's like "everyone go out and turn left". You do have the instances of play action and misdirection opening things up but that's few and far between.


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#223 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 10:33 AM

Im not saying there isnt skill involved but connecting on throws 25+-30+ yards had luck involved too.

 

There is to a degree but job one for the QB is to put the ball where the WR can put their hands on it. Often times on these deep throws, the passes have simply been uncatchable. With that said, it does seem very rare that our guys ever just go make a damn play. A contested catch, a diving catch; something to bail out Lamar, so to speak. So there's enough responsibility to go around.


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#224 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 12:34 PM

He's right, these gems are all over their All-22 film. A redzone snap they had Proche and Andrews both wind up under the goal post in a crowd. I mentioned yesterday, the throw to Oliver with 10 seconds left got Lamar some criticism that he held it too long... but the routes the outside receivers ran were all deep and in to coverage and then Oliver took too long to release... so Lamar did the only thing he could safely do about as quickly as he could do it. Two timeouts and 10 seconds left (Jags gave up some yardage with the squib kick, but it also burned about one more offensive play off the clock) and Roman's not calling quick hitters at all... but instead calls a play that's likely to burn enough clock to be their only snap before a long FG attempt or a Hail Mary.

The route combinations they run are terrible. The play calls take too long to get in. We've seen that with our own eyes, and Harbaugh admitted it when someone finally pressed him on it. The play calls often don't mesh with what's needed most in the situation. This staff hamstrings the team's maximum potential once the ball is kicked off. It has to end...

I really thought you were going to get through a post without typing Harbaugh. So close!

#225 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 12:40 PM


There is to a degree but job one for the QB is to put the ball where the WR can put their hands on it. Often times on these deep throws, the passes have simply been uncatchable. With that said, it does seem very rare that our guys ever just go make a damn play. A contested catch, a diving catch; something to bail out Lamar, so to speak. So there's enough responsibility to go around.

Def not a blanket defense of Lamar because I take issue with the 2nd part of your post. Though they are expected to do it, at times these WRs bail Lamar out. Just the very first thing that pops in my head is the Oliver TD the other day. Wide open on a perfect playcall and he had to go up to get it. Again, one you expect him to make but it was also a layup throw for Lamar

#226 Ravens2006

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 12:45 PM

I really thought you were going to get through a post without typing Harbaugh. So close!


Nope. Dude's the team's biggest problem on game day. :)

#227 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 12:49 PM


Nope. Dude's the team's biggest problem on game day. :)

At one time I was ready to move on. Thought it was 50/50 we could do better. Those odds have shifted greatly. Hes a good coach. One with flaws but easily Top 10. And Im being conservative. Prob top 5.

#228 hallas

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 12:53 PM


This is why I was making the point that we don’t fully know what we have in our WR room. Just look at that play design. Total incompetence. This isn’t the same as saying the Ravens WR’s can do what the Eagles do. That was never my point. Just that Baltimore is where WR’s go to die relative to the rest of the league.


Are you saying that you can grade WRs positively if they perform well despite Roman, but you can't grade them negatively? I understand this viewpoint but I think it's a bit extreme especially with Robinson, since we at least know how well he did with Reid and Mahomes.

#229 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 01:08 PM


Are you saying that you can grade WRs positively if they perform well despite Roman, but you can't grade them negatively? I understand this viewpoint but I think it's a bit extreme especially with Robinson, since we at least know how well he did with Reid and Mahomes.

I’m saying exactly what I said. This isn’t hard man, sick of this back and forth. I’m very clearly not talking about the more known quantities/retreads. Really only making a point about the scheme and how that effects WR’s. Really can’t understand why you’re stretching my comments and continuously making them something they weren’t.

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#230 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 01:27 PM

Def not a blanket defense of Lamar because I take issue with the 2nd part of your post. Though they are expected to do it, at times these WRs bail Lamar out. Just the very first thing that pops in my head is the Oliver TD the other day. Wide open on a perfect playcall and he had to go up to get it. Again, one you expect him to make but it was also a layup throw for Lamar

 

Fair point. That play in particular looked a little out sync. If you recall, Oliver slowed and looked back at Lamar, which probably messed with the timing a bit. It also looked like Jackson was making sure to get the ball over that defender underneath.

 

At any rate, I would've liked to have seen Lamar deliver a better throw there but it also would've been nice to see Oliver make a tough grab. 


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#231 hallas

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 01:50 PM

Fair point. That play in particular looked a little out sync. If you recall, Oliver slowed and looked back at Lamar, which probably messed with the timing a bit. It also looked like Jackson was making sure to get the ball over that defender underneath.

At any rate, I would've liked to have seen Lamar deliver a better throw there but it also would've been nice to see Oliver make a tough grab.

I rewatched that a few times and I'm putting like 95% of the blame on Oliver, because he slowed down a *lot* looking for thr ball, and he mistyped his jump. The perfect placement for that was maybe 3 inches lower... but if it were a foot lower the underneath safety would have been in position to bat that one.

I can't put too much blame on Lamar because he missed his ideal target location by 3 inches.

#232 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 02:52 PM

Im talking about the Oliver TD. The one he did catch. The other one I agree was more on Oliver. Btw Oliver is a pretty solid #2 TE. Is he a FA next year?

#233 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 03:08 PM

Im talking about the Oliver TD. The one he did catch. The other one I agree was more on Oliver. Btw Oliver is a pretty solid #2 TE. Is he a FA next year?

 

Oliver is a free agent after this season. Boyle will likely be cut after this year, which would net about 2.7 mill in savings. With Kolar and Likely in the fold, along with Andrews of course, it will depend on if we go TE heavy again next season or not as to what we do with Oliver.


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#234 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 03:13 PM

Oliver is a free agent after this season. Boyle will likely be cut after this year, which would net about 2.7 mill in savings. With Kolar and Likely in the fold, along with Andrews of course, it will depend on if we go TE heavy again next season or not as to what we do with Oliver.

Have to think he is gone. Especially since Likely has received such a good blocking grade. 



#235 hallas

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 03:49 PM

Oliver is a free agent after this season. Boyle will likely be cut after this year, which would net about 2.7 mill in savings. With Kolar and Likely in the fold, along with Andrews of course, it will depend on if we go TE heavy again next season or not as to what we do with Oliver.

 

Honest question: do we consider Andrews a TE?  He's been so rarely lined up in tight, that it's really questionable.   Based on his usage he's pretty much a slot WR that can block.



#236 bmore_ken

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 04:58 PM

There were accuracy concerns for Jackson coming out of college. He did improve year over year but his career comp % at Louisville was 57% and if I recall correctly, against top 25 teams he was under 50%. You can attribute some of that to lesser talented receivers dropping more passes but it could be that this is just Lamar Jackson as a passer. When you see his inconsistent mechanics and his propensity to go to the sidearm sling when it's not needed, you can understand why the inconsistency exists.

Lamar is a 63% career NFL  passer. What happened at Louisville is irrelevant to anything happening today. 



#237 85Knight

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 10:42 PM

I just heard that Lamar left practice today with a quad injury.

#238 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 01 December 2022 - 11:37 AM

Lamar is a 63% career NFL  passer. What happened at Louisville is irrelevant to anything happening today. 

 

It's merely a discussion point to show that there has been some accuracy concerns. Seeing guys like Kenny Pickett and Daniel Jones with a higher completion % than Lamar is unsettling. I would have to dig into how drops are impacting things but all it seems to come back to the poor completion % on deep balls that is holding Lamar back. Although, as I mentioned previously, the periodic appearance of the sidearm throws, particularly when they're unnecessary, is something Lamar has to work on.


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#239 makoman

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Posted 01 December 2022 - 11:52 AM

It's merely a discussion point to show that there has been some accuracy concerns. Seeing guys like Kenny Pickett and Daniel Jones with a higher completion % than Lamar is unsettling. I would have to dig into how drops are impacting things but all it seems to come back to the poor completion % on deep balls that is holding Lamar back. Although, as I mentioned previously, the periodic appearance of the sidearm throws, particularly when they're unnecessary, is something Lamar has to work on.

I have no idea if pro football reference is good for these stats, but they have Lamar with 75.4% on target (compare to 76.0%, 75.3%, 73.3% 2019-21), 17.4% bad throws (compare to 17.5%, 17.6%, 19.7% 2019-21), and 8.5% drops (compare to 3.6%, 5.5%, 4.9% 2019-21).

 

So he seems comparable to his other years except the drops are up. I read yesterday, forget the source, the Ravens are 2nd worst in the league in drops.

 

As a point of reference, for 2021 and 2022:

 

Josh Allen has been 74.8% and 72.8% on target, 17.4% and 15.0% bad, and 5.7% and 5.6% drops.

 

Pat Mahomes has been 77.5% and 76.7% on target, 18.8% and 16.6% bad, and 5.0% and 5.8% drops.

 

Again, Lamar not vastly different except drops. 

 

They don't break out deep balls and such.


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#240 Old Man

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Posted 01 December 2022 - 12:28 PM

I think there is enough blame to share around on the offense.

 

Does Lamar get drops, yeah, it does seam that way.

 

That said, there are too many cases this year, when he ignored the open man, so he could tuck and run.

 

As for Andrews, leave him alone as TE, only because he makes more points for me, as my fantasy TE and if he was a WR, he wouldnt even be starting. :)






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