138 replies to this topic

[hallas]

2 years and 4 months and 1 week.

Less facetiously, it depends on the guy's physical profile (more highly touted, the easier it is to buy in), their performance profile (good minor league stats or come from nowhere), and exactly how dominant they pitch.

A middling prospect pitching to a 3.50 ERA is gonna have to do it for a real long time before anyone calls him an ace. But a former 1st rounder pitching for a year and a half at 2.50 is gonna get that label from many.

 

How long would a non-prospect have to pitch at a ~2.00 ERA pace before he becomes an ace?  A season?  2?  Are we just going to dispense with the labeling untll we trade him for an obvious ace-level haul?

[dude]

I think that if you win a Cy Young Award and are getting votes in other years you're unquestionably an ace no matter how badly you choke in the playoffs.

 

On the other hand if you a top-15-to-30-ish starter in the regular season and then throw 5 shutouts in the playoffs you probably could qualify as an ace as well.

 

This is kind of the Kershaw versus MadBum discussion.  You can have different paths to the same label.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

ACE

[The Epic]

Yeah, I think this thread can die its natural death now.

[FL O's Fan]

I guess today's lesson is, learn how to throw a change up kids. This guy has gone from a non prospect to a potential ace with how good that change up is. And obviously his ability to command all of his pitches. 

[FL O's Fan]

Also,  pay this man! I'd like Mancini too, but go ahead and extend out Means beyond his arbitration. 

[dude]

I have no intention of pissing on this today.

Like I said earlier, he's doing the right things and it feels sustainable.

He's thrown the 308th no-hitter of All Time (already on Wikipedia)

It certainly qualifies as a piece of the puzzle. "Moments" It's not the whole puzzle.

[Mike B]

I am not sure we need to label Means.  IMO, the best pitcher we have had since Moose.  He has been excellent, and call him what ever you want.  

[Mike B]

Also,  pay this man! I'd like Mancini too, but go ahead and extend out Means beyond his arbitration. 

Yep, send a message to the fans and the rest of the team and buy out his arbitration years, plus one of 2 more.

 

Not only is he performing incredibly well, he is a class person.

 

His post game interviews, screamed face of the franchise type stuff.

[BaltBird 24]

He's certainly the best starting pitcher to come through our system since Erik Bedard.

[hallas]

I am not sure we need to label Means. IMO, the best pitcher we have had since Moose. He has been excellent, and call him what ever you want.

Wow, you already rate him better than Bedard?

[hallas]

I guess today's lesson is, learn how to throw a change up kids. This guy has gone from a non prospect to a potential ace with how good that change up is. And obviously his ability to command all of his pitches.

Just to clarify, I think he was only a fringe prospect because he threw like 89-92 with his fastball. He came back after the 2018-2019 offseason throwing 91-95. His change has always been good, but it went from good to great because he added 2-3 mph on his fastball.

[jamesdean]

I guess today's lesson is, learn how to throw a change up kids. This guy has gone from a non prospect to a potential ace with how good that change up is. And obviously his ability to command all of his pitches. 

It's a tough pitch to master and it's been that way for a long time.  You need a better than average fastball to set it up, which Means has done with added velocity.  Then you have to be able to command it in the right spots.  It's just a difficult pitch to be good at and very few have had it as an important part of their arsenal. 

[BaltBird 24]

Dare to say he's got the best FB/CHANGEUP combination since Johan?

[Slidemaster]

Dare to say he's got the best FB/CHANGEUP combination since Johan?

Cole Hamels?

[Mike B]

Wow, you already rate him better than Bedard?

That is probably a fair question.  Bedard had 2 good years for the Orioles, and Means is approaching that.  I was never a big EB fan, so maybe it is preference but I will take Means.

[DuffMan]

That is probably a fair question.  Bedard had 2 good years for the Orioles, and Means is approaching that.  I was never a big EB fan, so maybe it is preference but I will take Means.

Means is certainly a better human being than Bedard

[BaltBird 24]

Means is certainly a better human being than Bedard

I don't remember any bad Bedard incidents other than the fact that he despised the media.

[Old Man]

I don't remember any bad Bedard incidents other than the fact that he despised the media.

Easy to understand despising the media.

[BaltBird 24]

Easy to understand despising the media.

He was sort of ahead of his time in that regard. Some of his interviews were pretty funny, though I doubt the beat writers enjoyed it.

Shame he was only able to put together one full, healthy season.