540 replies to this topic

[Nigel Tufnel]

If your hands are on the steering wheel at 10 and 2, like I was taught by my father when pulled over. You do what you need to do, so he or she, knows you are not a threat. (Of course, when he taught me this, it was only males).

 

You're actually supposed to drive at 9 and 3 these days, so your airbag doesn't break your wrists in a crash.  Not sure if 10 and 2 is still the preferred position for a traffic stop.

 

Also, Hannity recommended getting out of the car and pulling up his shirt, so his hands obviously wouldn't be on the wheel.

[Mackus]

If your hands are on the steering wheel at 10 and 2, like I was taught by my father when pulled over. You do what you need to do, so he or she, knows you are not a threat. (Of course, when he taught me this, it was only males).

 

The correct behavior is not what's under contention.  The penalties for acting the wrong way are the problem.  You or me (I'm assuming you're white) are overwhelmingly likely to get to go home or at least survive and be taken to jail if we talk back, act aggressively, have a gun, or whatever other example we want to give of non-compliance.  Antoine's odds aren't nearly as good.  The discrepancy is the systemic racism everyone is talking about.

[russsnyder]

I think the players are trying to get their owner’s attention. Many of them are billionaires, white, and are well connected to people who have the ability to make real change. Some are probably in the President’s contact list in his personal cell phone.

Sure, LeBron James can go to Kenosha and be a nice distraction for the people for a couple days. He can tweet all he wants but the message won’t get to those who need to hear it. But Jeanie Buss as Lakers owner, probably in the top 5-10 most valuable sport franchises in the world, can set up meetings with a bunch of California congress people, senators, police commissioners, and start the discussion with those who can make the actual change. She can reach out to probably every owner in all four major sports and they can collaborate to make similar efforts in their states. Bring all the messages from their players to those people who make the rules we live under, rather than Joe Schmoe Twitter follower.

The owners already involved in the process. They have donated millions of dollars to to the social justice cause. Further, the owners reaching out to the President or members of the House or Senate is not going to do much good right now IMO. I really believe that both parties are exploiting the divide that is going on right now. I really think if the players want to do something positive, they should send at least a contingent of representatives to protest and talk to all of the people involved in Kenosha. They can either keep the games going or shut it all down completely. I am going to watch sports regardless, but if your going to shut practice or games down to issue bulletins on social policy or policing, you ought to go to where the unrest is to see exactly what is going on.

[russsnyder]

Many NBA players participated in protests that were sparked by the murder of George Floyd.

That fixed rapists?

The thread is about Kenosha, correct?

[Mackus]

The owners already involved in the process. They have donated millions of dollars to to the social justice cause. Further, the owners reaching out to the President or members of the House or Senate is not going to do much good right now IMO. I really believe that both parties are exploiting the divide that is going on right now. I really think if the players want to do something positive, they should send at least a contingent of representatives to protest and talk to all of the people involved in Kenosha. They can either keep the games going or shut it all down completely. I am going to watch sports regardless, but if your going to shut practice or games down to issue bulletins on social policy or policing, you ought to go to where the unrest is to see exactly what is going on.

 

Seems like moving goalposts.

 

You can protest, but not-violently.

You can protest non-violently, but not during the national anthem.

You can protest non-violently not during the national anthem, but only from on-the-ground at the current location of most unrest.

[russsnyder]

Re: rapists, that's a loaded question, and I don't want to go too far into the weeds. Generally, addressing how we get to that point, and acting accordingly, is a good place to start. I'm not speaking on anybody's behalf, but I think that the #MeToo movement led to a large section of people to realize that rape/harassment isn't just the Bill Cosby stuff and the R Kelly stuff. This isn't just "boys will be boys"...some crap is unacceptable and we should call it out BEFORE someone thinks that going even further is acceptable.

"Boys will be boys" is essentially "that's just how cops are"

Also, you'd be surprised at how many times violence or destruction of property has solved problems in America's history, for good or bad.

Sure.

# Metoo was great until it crossed party lines. ( Never saw any real outcry from the movement when Biden was accused.Also, Bill Clinton seems to get a pass along with Woody Sllen and Roman Polanski) I agree that it brought a great of light to Hollywood types that were sexually assaulting or harassing women. But rape still happening and it will never be eradicated from humanity. Some people are just wicked.

Surprise me.

Other than making some people feel better that the police are to be used as a punching bag that the violence or destruction has solved much of anything in Kenosha right. You have a city that is under siege and has armed citizens that are under curfew. Flosman's description is of a place where the populace is almost held hostage. Yeah, I realize protest is supposed to be uncomfortable. Riots and anarchy are extremely dangerous. That goes beyond uncomfortable.

[russsnyder]

Seems like moving goalposts.

You can protest, but not-violently.
You can protest non-violently, but not during the national anthem.
You can protest non-violently not during the national anthem, but only from on-the-ground at the current location of most unrest.

No goal posts being moved.

I said along that once the protests become violent I am against it. There is a marked difference between protests and riots. We are seeing anarchy and I don't support that.

I never had a problem with protests during the anthem. I think it's anyone's right to stand, sit or kneel for whatever reason's they may have. In fact, I have suggested that we just do away with the anthem on these boards since it's so devisive to so many.

I said nothing of the kind. The players can boycott the games. However, since Kenosha is such a hot point, I think it would be great if the athletes ( or a contingent thereof visited site.) They can join in by the protests or try to make in other ways. It's a suggestion, I don't think any less of them if they don't do it, but if they think they can do some good they should he allowed to go.

[Old Man]

You're actually supposed to drive at 9 and 3 these days, so your airbag doesn't break your wrists in a crash.  Not sure if 10 and 2 is still the preferred position for a traffic stop.

 

Also, Hannity recommended getting out of the car and pulling up his shirt, so his hands obviously wouldn't be on the wheel.

Your right, 9-3 is driving. I learned long before airbags were a safety device. I tend to drive at 9-3, but when I was pulled over 2 years ago, my hands were at 10-2, and in clear sight of the officers.

 

If you are going to crash, they say the best thing you can do, is to cross your arms in front of your chest, like the nascar drivers do.

[Mackus]

Sure.

# Metoo was great until it crossed party lines. ( Never saw any real outcry from the movement when Biden was accused.Also, Bill Clinton seems to get a pass along with Woody Sllen and Roman Polanski) I agree that it brought a great of light to Hollywood types that were sexually assaulting or harassing women. But rape still happening and it will never be eradicated from humanity. Some people are just wicked.

 

I agree with all of this.  

[The Epic]

Sure.

# Metoo was great until it crossed party lines. ( Never saw any real outcry from the movement when Biden was accused.Also, Bill Clinton seems to get a pass along with Woody Sllen and Roman Polanski) I agree that it brought a great of light to Hollywood types that were sexually assaulting or harassing women. But rape still happening and it will never be eradicated from humanity. Some people are just wicked.

Surprise me.

Other than making some people feel better that the police are to be used as a punching bag that the violence or destruction has solved much of anything in Kenosha right. You have a city that is under siege and has armed citizens that are under curfew. Flosman's description is of a place where the populace is almost held hostage. Yeah, I realize protest is supposed to be uncomfortable. Riots and anarchy are extremely dangerous. That goes beyond uncomfortable.

 

Nobody is saying that rape isn't still happening. That makes no sense. But you can make these things less likely to happen by making proactive steps. That's what we're saying here. You aren't curing wickedness, but that's by no means a reason to throw your hands up and say that you're not gonna take steps to make it less likely. Imagine saying that during 9/11. lol (Additionally, politically, this has been brought up in the news, social media, and in this forum. But it's politically motivated and I'm doing my best not to go there, here.)

 

But again, as you said, not the subject. I was just making the comparison clear.

 

#2, The goal is not to make police a punching bag; I don't think anybody fighting for this thinks that. The goal is to give them the accountability that citizens have. I think that's been said a bazillion times here, and I think you agree with that. 

 

BTW, re your "the athletes should go out there and protest," a lot of them (along with several other wealthy Black people) are either sending funds in support or helping in other ways that they can. They have talked to activists on the ground, as well as members of the Wisconsin government, and acted accordingly. They're doing their part with the influence that they have. The same thing happened with the Taylor/Floyd killings.

[Mackus]

No goal posts being moved.

I said along that once the protests become violent I am against it. There is a marked difference between protests and riots. We are seeing anarchy and I don't support that.

I never had a problem with protests during the anthem. I think it's anyone's right to stand, sit or kneel for whatever reason's they may have. In fact, I have suggested that we just do away with the anthem on these boards since it's so devisive to so many.

I said nothing of the kind. The players can boycott the games. However, since Kenosha is such a hot point, I think it would be great if the athletes ( or a contingent thereof visited site.) They can join in by the protests or try to make in other ways. It's a suggestion, I don't think any less of them if they don't do it, but if they think they can do some good they should he allowed to go.

 

Sorry I was speaking more generically, not specifically meaning to say that you had stated the other criteria under which people had said they supported the protests. 

 

Just seems to me that the basic counter-argument many people have for each instance is that whatever was one step shy of what was currently happening was ok, but this current step was too far.

[Old Man]

I agree with all of this.  

You didnt mention Weinstein or Crosby either. Two of the bigger clowns in Hollywood that took advantage of women.

 

Why did Epstein used to fly his buddies overseas so that they and his buddy Clintons could have underage sex away from USA law. Some of those stories, doesnt sound like the girls were always willings.

[The Epic]

The correct behavior is not what's under contention.  The penalties for acting the wrong way are the problem.  You or me (I'm assuming you're white) are overwhelmingly likely to get to go home or at least survive and be taken to jail if we talk back, act aggressively, have a gun, or whatever other example we want to give of non-compliance.  Antoine's odds aren't nearly as good.  The discrepancy is the systemic racism everyone is talking about.

 

I think this is a pretty fair assessment, though I would add that there's a higher likelihood if I do exhibit the correct behavior and things still go bad, as opposed to my white counterparts. Both of these, along with the lack of accountability for cops when these issues arise, have been long-standing complaints.

[The Epic]

You didnt mention Weinstein or Crosby either. Two of the bigger clowns in Hollywood that took advantage of women.

 

Why did Epstein used to fly his buddies overseas so that they and his buddy Clintons could have underage sex away from USA law. Some of those stories, doesnt sound like the girls were always willings.

 

Dude, with Epstein we're gonna get -way- into politics on something that isn't the subject here and I'd like this topic to be open as long as possible, thanks. LOL

[russsnyder]

Sorry I was speaking more generically, not specifically meaning to say that you had stated the other criteria under which people had said they supported the protests.

Just seems to me that the basic counter-argument many people have for each instance is that whatever was one step shy of what was currently happening was ok, but this current step was too far.

No apology necessary.

I understand the logic behind your previous statement.

The other thing that sparked this idea was that I read how much the Blake family appreciated the contact they received from the Bucks and how much it helped them.

I'm just thinking that if pro athletes ( particularly those based in Wisconsin) went to the city it would probably be a positive for all involved. ( Including the athletes.)

Maybe it's not feasible, but that statement from Blake's father struck a chord in me.

[Old Man]

No apology necessary.

I understand the logic behind your previous statement.

The other thing that sparked this idea was that I read how much the Blake family appreciated the contact they received from the Bucks and how much it helped them.

I'm just thinking that if pro athletes ( particularly those based in Wisconsin) went to the city it would probably be a positive for all involved. ( Including the athletes.)

Maybe it's not feasible, but that statement from Blake's father struck a chord in me.

What stuck a chord in me, was the statement that Blake's mother gave.

[Old Man]

Dude, with Epstein we're gonna get -way- into politics on something that isn't the subject here and I'd like this topic to be open as long as possible, thanks. LOL

Thanks for the warning.

[mweb08]

That fixed rapists?

The thread is about Kenosha, correct?

Um, what?

As far as the Kenosha part, no, that's just one part of what this thread is about. Unfortunately conversations like this gets bogged down by people who'd rather defend cops that kill people opposed to the greater issue of racism in America.

[Old Man]

Um, what?

As far as the Kenosha part, no, that's just one part of what this thread is about. Unfortunately conversations like this gets bogged down by people who'd rather defend cops that kill people opposed to the greater issue of racism in America.

There is racism still in the world.

 

I dont think every cop is bad, and not every single person a cop killed was an innocent victim.

 

Yet, some have died, that should not have.

[russsnyder]

Um, what?

As far as the Kenosha part, no, that's just one part of what this thread is about. Unfortunately conversations like this gets bogged down by people who'd rather defend cops that kill people opposed to the greater issue of racism in America.

Oh, I thought the thread was titled sports world reaction to the Jacob Blake shooting. My bad.