Photo

Sports World Reaction To Jacob Blake Shooting


  • Please log in to reply
540 replies to this topic

#501 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,631 posts

Posted 31 August 2020 - 11:37 AM

No apology necessary.

I understand the logic behind your previous statement.

The other thing that sparked this idea was that I read how much the Blake family appreciated the contact they received from the Bucks and how much it helped them.

I'm just thinking that if pro athletes ( particularly those based in Wisconsin) went to the city it would probably be a positive for all involved. ( Including the athletes.)

Maybe it's not feasible, but that statement from Blake's father struck a chord in me.

 

I think it's all feasible and would be helpful and nice to see.  I just in general don't think it's a good topic of conversation to talk about what people who are helping should do to help more.  For example (not here) but I read lots of comments back when Davis made his huge contribution to the Children's Hospital about how he should have given even more since he makes lots of money and is playing so badly.  And then I think it's doubly problematic when you add in the angle of suggesting to black people how they should go about helping promote the causes they are advocating.  To give another bad example, this is almost exactly what Donald Sterling said about Magic Johnson.

 

I know that, very specifically it being you making these statements, it's not coming as subterfuge or deflection.  But its also the exact type of comments that someone who wants to justify ignoring the message might make about the messenger.  Its kind of a variant of the "what about black on black crime?" argument.

 

And to address specifically you saying these things, I think it's all good suggestions.  But I'll make an analogy to working out or investing.  It's my opinion that for those things, just doing anything is like 80% of the battle.  If you go from doing nothing to whatever workout you wanna do however many times a week, you've made great progress.  There are absolutely ways you go about optimizing your workout time to meet your goals.  But just doing something is the massive first step, the rest is just finsihing the final touches.  I feel the same about investing.  If you are putting anything at all towards your retirement or towards some long-term savings, that's most of the job.  You can learn a lot about what are the best investments to make, try to do day-trading, put lots of time and effort into really optimizing things.  But just getting started is the major hurdle. 

So I think you're talking about how the athletes and others getting involved could go about optimizing their involvement and contributions.  That's certainly a worthy topic that could get as deep as anyone wants to go.  But I think you're talking about how to optimize effort.  Them doing anything at all is the major first step, and that's the thing that I think is of the most importance and should be applauded.



#502 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,631 posts

Posted 31 August 2020 - 11:41 AM

There is racism still in the world.

 

I dont think every cop is bad, and not every single person a cop killed was an innocent victim.

 

Yet, some have died, that should not have.

 

One of the major points is that cops shouldn't be killing guilty people, either, unless there are very specific actions being taken by that person.



#503 Old Man

Old Man

    MVP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,582 posts

Posted 31 August 2020 - 11:47 AM

One of the major points is that cops shouldn't be killing guilty people, either, unless there are very specific actions being taken by that person.

 

So you let the DWI guy drive off, and he crashes and kills innocent victims?  The case last week, the cop said stop or I will have to shoot you, as he is getting dragged?

 

At what point does society have to reform to rules. Dang, I know, nobody likes rules.

 

At what point, are you allow to disobey a lawful to stop and desist and you keep fighting the cops, When is this okay?

 

3 PG cops were shot last week, 2 lives were saved by their vests, they returned fire, and did not kill the guys. But, at what point, if they had been killed, dang, there goes gun crazy cops just shooting more innocent people.



#504 The Epic

The Epic

    ^^ That's my name. Don't wear it out.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,147 posts
  • LocationGlyndon, MD

Posted 31 August 2020 - 11:51 AM

Oh, I thought the thread was titled sports world reaction to the Jacob Blake shooting. My bad.

 

The athletes is talking about this with regard to systemic racism, as are analysts and broadcasters. It's the macro view of the issue in the Blake shooting itself. 

 

For example, we can talk about the protests in Kenosha without saying, "Oh hold up that has nothing to do with the sports world reaction"...we're not being that tunnel-visiony here. At least, not that I've seen.



#505 mweb08

mweb08

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 30,348 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 31 August 2020 - 11:59 AM

Seems like moving goalposts.

You can protest, but not-violently.
You can protest non-violently, but not during the national anthem.
You can protest non-violently not during the national anthem, but only from on-the-ground at the current location of most unrest.


Pretty much.

#506 mweb08

mweb08

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 30,348 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 31 August 2020 - 12:02 PM

Oh, I thought the thread was titled sports world reaction to the Jacob Blake shooting. My bad.


You've been reading the thread, no?

#507 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,631 posts

Posted 31 August 2020 - 12:09 PM

So you let the DWI guy drive off, and he crashes and kills innocent victims?  The case last week, the cop said stop or I will have to shoot you, as he is getting dragged?

 

At what point does society have to reform to rules. Dang, I know, nobody likes rules.

 

At what point, are you allow to disobey a lawful to stop and desist and you keep fighting the cops, When is this okay?

 

3 PG cops were shot last week, 2 lives were saved by their vests, they returned fire, and did not kill the guys. But, at what point, if they had been killed, dang, there goes gun crazy cops just shooting more innocent people.

 

If a suspect acts in a way that justifies deadly force I've got no problem with the shoot.  But it's a very specific set of actions that justify that.

 

The guy at the Wendy's I haven't been critical of.  He attacked an officer and tried to disarm him.

 

I can't understand how anybody thinks Jacob Blake's actions were a grave threat to the officer.  They simply were not, in my opinion.  It's difficult to stab someobody with your back to them.  Disobeying orders plus "he might have a gun?" do not meet the criteria for imminent deadly threat.

 

I don't know the other examples you cite, but they sound like obvious examples to me.  If people are shooting at the officers, certainly that merits use of deadly force.  If a suspect is trying to hit an officer with their car, another obvious case where deadly force is justified.  "Where is the line" is a very easy question to ask.  There is no slippery slope.  

 

The only difficult thing about this is what happens when the actions can be misconstrued as meriting deadly force.  If Jacob Blake grabbed his phone out of that car, then quickly turned around and raised it...I'd be ok with the shoot because it's easy to think that what he had was a weapon and he acted aggressively.  



#508 The Epic

The Epic

    ^^ That's my name. Don't wear it out.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,147 posts
  • LocationGlyndon, MD

Posted 31 August 2020 - 12:15 PM

So you let the DWI guy drive off, and he crashes and kills innocent victims?  The case last week, the cop said stop or I will have to shoot you, as he is getting dragged?

 

At what point does society have to reform to rules. Dang, I know, nobody likes rules.

 

At what point, are you allow to disobey a lawful to stop and desist and you keep fighting the cops, When is this okay?

 

3 PG cops were shot last week, 2 lives were saved by their vests, they returned fire, and did not kill the guys. But, at what point, if they had been killed, dang, there goes gun crazy cops just shooting more innocent people.

 

We've addressed this before, but I don't think people are saying that every police shooting is unjustified, so I'm not sure who the snark is pointed at. Nobody here has noted deadly force as a nonsensical action in every scenario. 



#509 mweb08

mweb08

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 30,348 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 31 August 2020 - 12:41 PM

Food for thought:

Sarah Spain
I read this the other day and can’t stop thinking about it:

"Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage...

...but property damage is not an appropriate response to murder?"

https://twitter.com/...6547169287?s=19
  • You Play to Win the Game and dorfmac like this

#510 The Epic

The Epic

    ^^ That's my name. Don't wear it out.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,147 posts
  • LocationGlyndon, MD

Posted 31 August 2020 - 01:00 PM

Food for thought:

Sarah Spain
I read this the other day and can’t stop thinking about it:

"Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage...

...but property damage is not an appropriate response to murder?"

https://twitter.com/...6547169287?s=19

 

This quote, and Acho's quote about "you can't tell someone how to grieve" with regard to the property damage, have really given me pause. 

 

I mean we have the obvious quotes:

 

…I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.


  • dorfmac likes this

#511 mweb08

mweb08

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 30,348 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 31 August 2020 - 01:01 PM

Yes, that's a great quote!

#512 Nigel Tufnel

Nigel Tufnel

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,913 posts

Posted 01 September 2020 - 07:27 AM

https://twitter.com/...643802298736640



#513 The Epic

The Epic

    ^^ That's my name. Don't wear it out.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,147 posts
  • LocationGlyndon, MD

Posted 01 September 2020 - 07:51 AM

https://twitter.com/...643802298736640

 

I think I could make a comment that nobody will agree with.

 

This is decidedly worse than the Brooks "situation," but...assuming they confirm that he's drunk (which they didn't according to the article, which is wild), and assuming they didn't let him go because he's someone's buddy or something...I'm not necessarily against this. There's no way that they didn't seek charges for the guy later and picked him up (again, assuming he's not a friend of theirs). We'll probably find that out later this week since it's gaining national attention.



#514 BSLSteveBirrer

BSLSteveBirrer

    Soccer Analyst

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,199 posts
  • LocationMS and ID

Posted 01 September 2020 - 09:01 AM

Well I said I was done with this thread. But I will add one totally unsided  (is that a word?...lol) comment.

 

Social media is one of the worst things that has happened to society ever. Sure its great for keeping in touch with family and friends but now everybody has to do the selfie thing or take pics and videos of some situation. And people reach conclusions on some 15 second post before the rest of the story comes out. Humans just can't wait to jump to a conclusion.


  • dorfmac likes this

#515 Old Man

Old Man

    MVP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,582 posts

Posted 01 September 2020 - 09:28 AM

Well I said I was done with this thread. But I will add one totally unsided  (is that a word?...lol) comment.

 

Social media is one of the worst things that has happened to society ever. Sure its great for keeping in touch with family and friends but now everybody has to do the selfie thing or take pics and videos of some situation. And people reach conclusions on some 15 second post before the rest of the story comes out. Humans just can't wait to jump to a conclusion.

I agree and throw the news media in there as well, for no longer just reporting the facts. They are now twisting things and in some cases out and out lying. Its very slanted and out of control.



#516 The Epic

The Epic

    ^^ That's my name. Don't wear it out.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,147 posts
  • LocationGlyndon, MD

Posted 01 September 2020 - 09:33 AM

Well I said I was done with this thread. But I will add one totally unsided  (is that a word?...lol) comment.

 

Social media is one of the worst things that has happened to society ever. Sure its great for keeping in touch with family and friends but now everybody has to do the selfie thing or take pics and videos of some situation. And people reach conclusions on some 15 second post before the rest of the story comes out. Humans just can't wait to jump to a conclusion.

 

But I think there's another side to this. 

 

Social media has brought a lot of stuff to light that people...honestly just didn't believe before. A lot of people (hell, MOST non-black people) thought that police brutality was just a figment of people's imaginations, until there was actual viral video showing otherwise.

 

People have no idea how much of this was just "shouting into the void" until social media became a larger thing.


  • mweb08, BSLRoseKatz and dorfmac like this

#517 BSLSteveBirrer

BSLSteveBirrer

    Soccer Analyst

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,199 posts
  • LocationMS and ID

Posted 01 September 2020 - 10:04 AM

But I think there's another side to this. 

 

Social media has brought a lot of stuff to light that people...honestly just didn't believe before. A lot of people (hell, MOST non-black people) thought that police brutality was just a figment of people's imaginations, until there was actual viral video showing otherwise.

 

People have no idea how much of this was just "shouting into the void" until social media became a larger thing.

For sure Epic. I just wish people (and Old Man is right on the media) would wait until they get the whole picture before rushing to judgement.



#518 The Epic

The Epic

    ^^ That's my name. Don't wear it out.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,147 posts
  • LocationGlyndon, MD

Posted 01 September 2020 - 12:24 PM

For sure Epic. I just wish people (and Old Man is right on the media) would wait until they get the whole picture before rushing to judgement.

 

I agree that rushes to judgment happen, sometimes to negative conclusions, but two things:

 

1) I also believe that it's a bit of the side effect of the overall good that comes from being able to see stuff as it happens. Hell, even the police have used social media to catch people by pure crowdsourcing. 

 

2) JUST using police brutality as an example, the majority of the time we don't get the whole picture. Either additional footage is not disclosed, or the police come out with a statement where we pretty much have to trust them at their word...because that's how we as a society have been trained. I do believe that society is slowly moving away from trusting the police outright in these confrontations, but we still have a ways to go. I think that, for example, if Freddie Gray happened today, we (the public) would look at things more skeptically than we did 5 years ago. Or maybe I'm wrong. But if I'm right, this social media footage is a HUGE reason why.

 

I agree that media has had a slant (depending on the media that you consume, supporting or against the protesters), but I believe that's been the case for quite some time, going way back to before I was born, at least. We talked about that at length in the politics thread if you want some light leisurely reading. LOL



#519 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,631 posts

Posted 01 September 2020 - 12:24 PM

Well I said I was done with this thread. But I will add one totally unsided  (is that a word?...lol) comment.

 

Social media is one of the worst things that has happened to society ever. Sure its great for keeping in touch with family and friends but now everybody has to do the selfie thing or take pics and videos of some situation. And people reach conclusions on some 15 second post before the rest of the story comes out. Humans just can't wait to jump to a conclusion.

 

How many of these recent awful cases go completely unreported if there is no video?  Are Ahmaud Arbery's killers charged without video?  George Floyd's?  Jacob Blake's shooter hasn't been arrested yet even with the video.

 

The video is essential.  All patrol officers should have body cams on all the time.  Citizens with cellphone cameras are doing admirable work to record incidents in case something happens, but it shouldn't be necessary.  



#520 mweb08

mweb08

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 30,348 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 01 September 2020 - 12:44 PM

Video regarding interactions with the police and the dissemination of it is great for all citizens and is even a positive for police officers that are doing their jobs properly.

It should in theory decrease police brutality and other improper public behavior by the police, plus it should also provide evidence to achieve justice much more often.

Sadly, in my view at least, police are still getting away with way too much even when their actions are recorded. This should be relatively low hanging fruit to improve policing and the accountability regarding it, specifically as it pertains to minorities, but sadly I'm not especially optimistic.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Our Sponsors


 width=