540 replies to this topic

[The Epic]

It should in theory decrease police brutality and other improper public behavior by the police, plus it should also provide evidence to achieve justice much more often.

 

This has actually happened a couple of times with police video footage that I can recall. Essentially going, "See? This was justifiable!" If I'm the police, I'd absolutely want the camera on during every confrontation, for that specific reason. 

 

Most of those videos you DON'T see, because either 1) the original video was justifiable on its face (deadly force was the right call), 2) it's so damning that it doesn't get released until absolutely required to do so, or 3) legalese that I can't remember right now. I think it's some state-by-state rule about releasing video footage. 

 

I mean, there's negatives (like the white Columbia officer casually dropping n-bombs during an argument), but I wouldn't see why every cop wouldn't be for it. To me, it would reinforce their inherent "good-ness." 

[Old Man]

This has actually happened a couple of times with police video footage that I can recall. Essentially going, "See? This was justifiable!" If I'm the police, I'd absolutely want the camera on during every confrontation, for that specific reason. 

 

Most of those videos you DON'T see, because either 1) the original video was justifiable on its face (deadly force was the right call), 2) it's so damning that it doesn't get released until absolutely required to do so, or 3) legalese that I can't remember right now. I think it's some state-by-state rule about releasing video footage. 

 

I mean, there's negatives (like the white Columbia officer casually dropping n-bombs during an argument), but I wouldn't see why every cop wouldn't be for it. To me, it would reinforce their inherent "good-ness." 

Thats why Body cameras are critical. Bystander videos usually start rolling after the main incident has occurred and can sometimes paint a different aspect on things.

[The Epic]

Thats why Body cameras are critical. Bystander videos usually start rolling after the main incident has occurred and can sometimes paint a different aspect on things.

 

I agree!

 

For a very relevant example, the cops that killed Breonna Taylor just happened to have their body cams off, or not worn.

[Old Man]

I agree!

 

For a very relevant example, the cops that killed Breonna Taylor just happened to have their body cams off, or not worn.

We did see that with dashboard cameras, and somehow they would get turned off.

But on the all and all, I think the body cameras shows pretty telling videos on criminal conducts.

There is a show used to be on A&E PD Cam and was fascinating to have a front row seat on what these people have to go through. Yes, I know, they edited out the ones, so the cops are shown in a good light. 

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Thats why Body cameras are critical. Bystander videos usually start rolling after the main incident has occurred and can sometimes paint a different aspect on things.

You all have made some good points. But this is where I was coming from. I think body cams should be mandatory for all PDs. Shoot as much as I dislike taxes going up this is for one thing I could actually be ok with. No reason for all officers to not wear one. And its good for everybody. Keeps the cops more in line but also provides them with protection from those who start filming with their cell phones after the shit has already hit the fan.

 

Good discussion guys. Note that's a generic term lest the gender police come after me....lol

[The Epic]

We did see that with dashboard cameras, and somehow they would get turned off.

But on the all and all, I think the body cameras shows pretty telling videos on criminal conducts.

There is a show used to be on A&E PD Cam and was fascinating to have a front row seat on what these people have to go through. Yes, I know, they edited out the ones, so the cops are shown in a good light. 

 

I think it would solve a chunk of (but obviously not all) issues if cops knew that everything they did would be eventually seen by the public, should it go awry.

 

Additionally, there should be a forfeiture of innocence (not sure the term, but I assume you know what I mean) when these situations happen and the cam was turned off for whatever reason. There should be jail time and personal liability for those instances.

[Old Man]

I think it would solve a chunk of (but obviously not all) issues if cops knew that everything they did would be eventually seen by the public, should it go awry.

 

Additionally, there should be a forfeiture of innocence (not sure the term, but I assume you know what I mean) when these situations happen and the cam was turned off for whatever reason. There should be jail time and personal liability for those instances.

I agree with you, if you can prove they were turned off with intent.

 

We live and die by the computer ERA. These things just act up and become worthless and then later they are back working as normal.

[The Epic]

I agree with you, if you can prove they were turned off with intent.

 

I feel like there's a way to do that. Because obviously if a cop did something egregious, the first place they'd go is saying that the cam malfunctioned.

 

I'm just imagining this on the fly (in other words, I'm sure people have had better ideas), but I feel like pulling up to an incident, you flip a switch, a light goes off in the vehicle that notes that the cam is online, then you do your thing. The cam does not go off until you re-enter the car and manually flip the switch back. If the light isn't on, you don't leave the car. 

 

The film goes into the city government cloud and cannot be deleted. Backups galore.

[Old Man]

I feel like there's a way to do that. Because obviously if a cop did something egregious, the first place they'd go is saying that the cam malfunctioned.

 

I'm just imagining this on the fly (in other words, I'm sure people have had better ideas), but I feel like pulling up to an incident, you flip a switch, a light goes off in the vehicle that notes that the cam is online, then you do your thing. The cam does not go off until you re-enter the car and manually flip the switch back. If the light isn't on, you don't leave the car. 

 

The film goes into the city government cloud and cannot be deleted. Backups galore.

Works for me.

Your right, there must be a way, that's for sure.

They seam pretty tuff, seen them knocked on and on the ground, and still filming.

[Grindelwald]

I agree!

 

For a very relevant example, the cops that killed Breonna Taylor just happened to have their body cams off, or not worn.

Funny how that happens so often with these controversial shootings.

[Cisc-O's]

This has actually happened a couple of times with police video footage that I can recall. Essentially going, "See? This was justifiable!" If I'm the police, I'd absolutely want the camera on during every confrontation, for that specific reason.

Most of those videos you DON'T see, because either 1) the original video was justifiable on its face (deadly force was the right call), 2) it's so damning that it doesn't get released until absolutely required to do so, or 3) legalese that I can't remember right now. I think it's some state-by-state rule about releasing video footage.

I mean, there's negatives (like the white Columbia officer casually dropping n-bombs during an argument), but I wouldn't see why every cop wouldn't be for it. To me, it would reinforce their inherent "good-ness."

Well that and you need to think that is someone’s kid getting killed on the camera and the family may not want everyone to see. People have their own rights when it comes to releasing the film. If they are alive you could taint a jury and have a mistrial. Yes all in all video is 100% required to have on in every interaction. You get written up if you do not keep the camera on.

The camera is on a delay. When in an altercation it can be turned off or malfunction. It is saved on a Zip drive and you upload it after every shift.

[The Epic]

Well that and you need to think that is someone’s kid getting killed on the camera and the family may not want everyone to see. People have their own rights when it comes to releasing the film. If they are alive you could taint a jury and have a mistrial. Yes all in all video is 100% required to have on in every interaction. You get written up if you do not keep the camera on.

The camera is on a delay. When in an altercation it can be turned off or malfunction. It is saved on a Zip drive and you upload it after every shift.

 

Of course...that's definitely fair.

 

As for the video, I thought that wasn't required everywhere. Are you just talking about your department specifically, or wider-scale? Also, I don't think that's good enough that stuff could be turned off or malfunction when things get hairy. That's exactly when it -should- be on. 

 

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I just feel like technology has to be in place to make this work to everyone's favor. Maybe it's costly. I dunno.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Well I said I was done with this thread. But I will add one totally unsided  (is that a word?...lol) comment.

 

Social media is one of the worst things that has happened to society ever. Sure its great for keeping in touch with family and friends but now everybody has to do the selfie thing or take pics and videos of some situation. And people reach conclusions on some 15 second post before the rest of the story comes out. Humans just can't wait to jump to a conclusion.

 

Social media is just a tool. Everything that everyone is doing and putting on there has always existed in some form or another.

[dorfmac]

I tend to think social media is more bad than good. Yes, it’s made connectivity easier and provided a platform to highlight issues that have always existed.

The flipside is the damage it has done to discourse and the ability to discern and decipher useful information. How many random boomers have had their brains turned to mush as a direct result of Facebook? All of this QAnon stuff is a primary example of the dangers. The spread of Proud Boy and Boogaloo nonsense is exactly what’s created monsters like Rittenhouse. Meanwhile, these platforms do nothing to police or monitor the content that is shared and propagated and claim no responsibility.

I can’t even write a coherent post about it because it is so infuriating.

[NewMarketSean]

Social media is one of the worst things that technology has ever birthed.

[Cisc-O's]

Of course...that's definitely fair.
 
As for the video, I thought that wasn't required everywhere. Are you just talking about your department specifically, or wider-scale? Also, I don't think that's good enough that stuff could be turned off or malfunction when things get hairy. That's exactly when it -should- be on. 
 
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I just feel like technology has to be in place to make this work to everyone's favor. Maybe it's costly. I dunno.

It’s not everywhere yet. It is expensive. Try banging your camera as hard as you can against the ground and see if it still works.
Unfortunately sometimes hands on is needed and it’s not a middle school fight. The person is trying to do bodily harm and the they don’t make them strong enough. Mine has been ripped off, turned off from the person hitting it and myself being slammed on top of it.

Court rooms do not care about police perception. It’s not in the job description for them to. Until it has been processed and vetted will it come out. It is usually the defense that lets them out. You can’t claim a mistrial. Usually not until a conviction will the police let it out. The defense sometimes doesn’t let it out to build mistrust. (It’s not a nefarious tactic). The court doesn’t care what Antoine, Chris or myself think of what happened. Maybe that needs to change? Some type of oversight. The oversight needs to know procedure though then you still get cops judging cops.

Here are some ideas I came up for the academy. They usually ask if everyone did something properly let say a push up. You are responsible for yourself and are yelled at if you did not do it correctly and did not step forward. What if you made the recruits aware from the start they are responsible for everyone. Instead of the person themselves getting into the face of the person beside them for not saying what they were doing wrong. You have heard of see something say something. Why is internal affairs looked at negatively in most departments. Isn’t that what they are asking everyone else to do? It’s a cultural thing ingrained in everyone to mind their business. Don’t talk to strangers. It will be hard to overcome.

[mweb08]

Some suggested reading over the long weekend:

 

Dan Le Betard: From Michael Jordan to LeBron James, how the NBA became a powerful political organization

https://www.espn.com...al-organization

 

The Great Fire: A Special Issue Edited by Ta-Nehisi Coates

https://www.vanityfa...-the-great-fire

 

Kareem Abdul Jabbar has a Q&A in the latter and Bomani Jones writes about college football, but away from the sports connections, I'd highly recommend the title essay by Baltimore's own Ta-Nehisi Coates.

[mweb08]

Some suggested reading over the long weekend:

 

Dan Le Betard: From Michael Jordan to LeBron James, how the NBA became a powerful political organization

https://www.espn.com...al-organization

 

The Great Fire: A Special Issue Edited by Ta-Nehisi Coates

https://www.vanityfa...-the-great-fire

 

Kareem Abdul Jabbar has a Q&A in the latter and Bomani Jones writes about college football, but away from the sports connections, I'd highly recommend the title essay by Baltimore's own Ta-Nehisi Coates.

 

Update: The Bomani article is really good as one should expect.

[mweb08]

One other thing for now, the Covid thread became kinda of a bash Baltimore and Baltimore City Schools thread, and went a direction that may not be suited for this board at all, but if it is, it's here.

So I'm not trying to have a discussion on it, but if you want to have a better understanding of the racial education and wealth gap, as well as why Mike's line about teaching a man to fish regarding reparations is missing a big piece of the puzzle, listen to the first 25 or so minutes of the Bakari Sellers podcast with Darrick Hamilton.

[BSLRoseKatz]

Kirk Herbstreit on College Gameday

https://twitter.com/...287403453943808