221 replies to this topic

[BobPhelan]

I agree about the Westburg/Ortiz part.

I'm also curious to get more insight in Bob's think regarding Jackson. I'm guessing that it's more about Gunnar and fitting Mayo in than anything negative about Holliday.

As for Mayo at 2B, based on what Bob has said, I think Coby's arm is his best defensive asset which would be useful but less valuable at 2B. I'm guessing his D wouldn't be all that good at 2B otherwise either if he profiles as an average third baseman despite the cannon.

Yeah it’s nothing against Holliday. His defense has improved throughout the year but has lagged behind his offensive development (how could it not) so putting him at 2B at least to start his career could help ease him in.

Mayo is 6’5’’, 230 at 21 years old and has never played up the middle defensively as a pro. It’s either 3B, corner OF, or 1B for him and one of the first two would allow him to use his 70 grade arm.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I just think you can have a terrific defensive infield with some combo of Gunnar,Jackson, Ortiz, Westburg as your primary 2b, 3b, SS. No real interest in trying to fit an avg at best def guy into that mix with Mayo. 1b sure. DH sure. Maybe RF. I dont know. Have they even tried him in the OF at all?? If they havent its probably telling.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Interesting hearing Hollidays defense maybe isnt all that good. I know Bob didnt say that but Im reading between the lines here.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I get wanting to keep these players versatile but IMO they need to tell Gunnar in the offseason if they think he will be the primary SS or 3B. He needs to take offseason reps at both but focus on the little things at the one they envision him playing most.

[BobPhelan]

Interesting hearing Hollidays defense maybe isnt all that good. I know Bob didnt say that but Im reading between the lines here.

I didn’t say that at all lol. He’s 19. Instincts are fantastic. We saw how raw Gunnar was at SS in 2021 and then he made a leap. He should be at least a major league average SS but that translates to plus 2B.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Gunnar is still flawed with his fundamentals. Hes getting away with things because hes super athletic. Which is why I think he gets moved off SS sooner than later but there is no denying the defensive metrics like him a lot at SS. We will see how it all plays out. Before Mayo was hypothetically in the mix as a 3b I argued for having Ortiz or Westburg as a super sub. We had this discussion a month or so ago with Weber. If Mayo were to be the reg 3b then a bench with Ortiz and Westburg is in fact overkill. I can get on board with 1 as a super uti guy/bench guy. Not both.

[BobPhelan]

Yeah, certainly agree with that last part.

Maybe you do Mayo, Gunnar, Holliday with Westburg/Ortiz as your Urias for a year or two and then eventually rotate Gunnar to 3B, Holliday to SS, Westburg/Ortiz to 2B, and Mayo to RF/1B/DH.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

In no universe could Mayo play 2B.

I think it’s fine to have Westburg or Ortiz as a reserve.

1. Why couldn't Mayo play 2b? I have no clue so that;s why I am asking.

 

2. They certainly would be great to have on the bench but I believe they would have more value used in a trade to get pieces that are more important need than bench players. Keep one? Sure but both? No way.

[BobPhelan]

1. Why couldn't Mayo play 2b? I have no clue so that;s why I am asking.

2. They certainly would be great to have on the bench but I believe they would have more value used in a trade to get pieces that are more important need than bench players. Keep one? Sure but both? No way.

Oh I agree keep one and use the other in a trade.

But Mayo can’t play second base because he’s 6’5” 230 pounds at age 21. He’s a good athlete but need range and quickness at second base. Plus it would be a waste of his arm even if he could do it.

[Mike B]

1. Why couldn't Mayo play 2b? I have no clue so that;s why I am asking.

 

2. They certainly would be great to have on the bench but I believe they would have more value used in a trade to get pieces that are more important need than bench players. Keep one? Sure but both? No way.

Mayo is a big guy.  Too big for second base.

 

I think Ortiz likely is dealt in the off season or at next year's deadline.

 

If the Orioles move on from Mateo and Frazier, maybe there is a spot for Ortiz and Westy.  At least until Holiday gets here.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Didn't realize Mayo was such a beast!

[mweb08]

I continue to think it's an inefficient use of team resources to stick a highly regarded prospect into a utility infield role on a team where the 3 starting infielders are very much everyday players and the catcher will get a fair amount of time at DH. Even more so when the team already has an ideal utility infielder in Urias.

[1970]

Holliday is the first one discussed:

 

https://blogs.fangra...s-play-defense/

[BobPhelan]

I continue to think it's an inefficient use of team resources to stick a highly regarded prospect into a utility infield role on a team where the 3 starting infielders are very much everyday players and the catcher will get a fair amount of time at DH. Even more so when the team already has an ideal utility infielder in Urias.

Just feel like we need to move on from Urias. His lack of athleticism isn’t going to age well IMO. The power he started to show last year is gone again, strikeouts are high, defense not as good.

[Mike B]

Holliday is the first one discussed:

 

https://blogs.fangra...s-play-defense/

I have seen others question whether Holliday is a big league SS.  It will be interesting to see where he plays in ST and then AAA next year.

The good news is the more I see Gunnar the more I think he is a big league shortstop and a good one.

[Mike B]

Just feel like we need to move on from Urias. His lack of athleticism isn’t going to age well IMO. The power he started to show last year is gone again, strikeouts are high, defense not as good.

I think Urias has been very good at 3B the last month or two, but I think he likely joins Mateo and Frazier on the bus out during the off season.

That is why I think there is room for Ortiz, Westy and Mayo.

[mweb08]

Just feel like we need to move on from Urias. His lack of athleticism isn’t going to age well IMO. The power he started to show last year is gone again, strikeouts are high, defense not as good.

He's a very good reserve infielder still imo. That's also not a difficult spot to fill as he gets older and more expensive. You don't need a top 50 prospect for instance to take on that role.

[mweb08]

I think Urias has been very good at 3B the last month or two, but I think he likely joins Mateo and Frazier on the bus out during the off season.
That is why I think there is room for Ortiz, Westy and Mayo.

Don't forget Holliday.

There's potential room on the roster, but there isn't enough playing time to go around with Mayo starting at third.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Holliday is the first one discussed:

https://blogs.fangra...s-play-defense/

Yeah so this was the kind of report I was talking about when I said his defense wasnt all that good and I was reading between the lines. Im assuming Bob had read this fangraphs blurb and I sensed something was up. Look, people wanted to at least speculate about him getting promoted in Sept or breaking camp next year. So yeah, his bat is well ahead and thats not necessarily an indictment on the D, but Longenhagen flat out just said he doesnt think he can play a big league SS right now. Yeah, hes only 19. Yeah, he is a baseball rat and can improve. Its still not what you want to hear when hes this close to MLB otherwise.

[BobPhelan]

Yeah so this was the kind of report I was talking about when I said his defense wasnt all that good and I was reading between the lines. Im assuming Bob had read this fangraphs blurb and I sensed something was up. Look, people wanted to at least speculate about him getting promoted in Sept or breaking camp next year. So yeah, his bat is well ahead and thats not necessarily an indictment on the D, but Longenhagen flat out just said he doesnt think he can play a big league SS right now. Yeah, hes only 19. Yeah, he is a baseball rat and can improve. Its still not what you want to hear when hes this close to MLB otherwise.

I actually hadn’t read that but makes sense. He needs his hands to soften as the speed of the game ramps up at each level.