418 replies to this topic

[makoman]

We don't have the resources to compete with teams like the Royals.

 

Oh wait, maybe now we do! But still, Boras client.

[BSLChrisStoner]

@masnRoch

Hyde said Gunnar Henderson will mainly play shortstop. #orioles

 

 

 

This has seemed clear for awhile.

[BSLRoseKatz]

[Mike B]

Quality Players always figure things out.  Gunnar is quality.  I think he is still scratching the surface.  I would back up the Brinks truck for the kid.  

[BaltBird 24]

Gunnar is the most important franchise player.

Everyone arguing over Jackson's extension.

Gunnar is the guy.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I’m ready to say he’s the best Orioles player I’ve seen in my lifetime.

[BaltBird 24]

Gunnar / Machado is a tough debate.

Easily the two best position players the Orioles have developed in the last 40 years.

[DuffMan]

I’m ready to say he’s the best Orioles player I’ve seen in my lifetime.

Took him at +2000 for MVP back in March, he's already down to +750

[hallas]

I’m ready to say he’s the best Orioles player I’ve seen in my lifetime.

 

You weren't a fan during the Cal years?  I followed his 1991 season pretty closely when he put up like a top-15 all time statistical season for a team that lost 95 games 

[CantonJester]

You weren't a fan during the Cal years?  I followed his 1991 season pretty closely when he put up like a top-15 all time statistical season for a team that lost 95 games 

 

Cal was never as dynamic as Gunnar can become. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

You weren't a fan during the Cal years? I followed his 1991 season pretty closely when he put up like a top-15 all time statistical season for a team that lost 95 games

He was like 6 in '91. Gunnar wont have Cal's career but Cal is a 96 WAR inner circle HOFer

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Cal was never as dynamic as Gunnar can become.

Gunnar has a chance to have the better offensive career. Though the 1st half of Cal's career he was very good offensively. Gunnar wont sniff being the total player Cal was. Cal is one of the best defenders in MLB history.

[BaltBird 24]

Cal was great until 30 and then hit a wall and became a very average offensively.

[Cisc-O's]

Cal was great until 30 and then hit a wall and became a very average offensively.

I don't buy he was average.  I have never taken league average numbers and compared them to Cal's during the 90's but I bet he was above league average over 90% of his career.

[makoman]

Cal had an OPS+/wRC+ below 100 in 7 of 10 years after 1991. Above every year '82-'91.

 

We aren't going to see any of Gunnar's 30s here, if he can match Cal's early career I think everyone will be thrilled.

[Mackus]

I think comparing to league average probably does Cal a disservice. Haven't looked it up recently, but I think SS was a much more below average offensive position in the 80s and early 90s than it is now. So a SS with a 120 OPS+ in the 80s was probably a better player than a SS with a 120 OPS+ today. Not sure if WAR or wRC+ make changes to take historical positional adjustments into account or just use the standard ones all the time.

[Cisc-O's]

I think comparing to league average probably does Cal a disservice. Haven't looked it up recently, but I think SS was a much more below average offensive position in the 80s and early 90s than it is now. So a SS with a 120 OPS+ in the 80s was probably a better player than a SS with a 120 OPS+ today. Not sure if WAR or wRC+ make changes to take historical positional adjustments into account or just use the standard ones all the time.

Was just about to bring this up!  Comparing Cal to Jose, Mark and the likes does under value what Cal meant to his position until 96.  Then when he moved to Third ok you can start comparing him to some of the mashers.

[makoman]

I think comparing to league average probably does Cal a disservice. Haven't looked it up recently, but I think SS was a much more below average offensive position in the 80s and early 90s than it is now. So a SS with a 120 OPS+ in the 80s was probably a better player than a SS with a 120 OPS+ today. Not sure if WAR or wRC+ make changes to take historical positional adjustments into account or just use the standard ones all the time.

This is probably true. bWAR gave Cal a pretty consistent 10 or 11 runs for positional value in the 80s. As a recent example, Swanson played 162 games at SS in 2022 and also got 10 for position. Ernie Banks was getting 9 for playing 154 games in the 50s. Honus Wagner played all over but got 10 in '08 and '12 when he played only SS for 151 and 143 games. So no real change in WAR due to differences in SS play over the years. I didn't look at fWAR, I don't know if it clearly shows you positional adjustment somewhere.

 

I don't believe OPS+ or wRC+ care about your position either, they care about your league average and ballpark. Being a somewhat unique hitter for a SS was a big part of what made him special.

[BSLRoseKatz]

The sOPS+ column is his OPS relative to the league average for all shortstops so he remained better than the average shortstop for his whole time at the position