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Gunnar Henderson


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#401 makoman

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Posted 05 February 2024 - 01:13 PM

We don't have the resources to compete with teams like the Royals.

 

Oh wait, maybe now we do! But still, Boras client.



#402 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 21 March 2024 - 04:32 PM

Hyde said Gunnar Henderson will mainly play shortstop. #orioles
 
 
 
This has seemed clear for awhile.

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#403 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 09:48 AM

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#404 Mike B

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 10:08 AM

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Quality Players always figure things out.  Gunnar is quality.  I think he is still scratching the surface.  I would back up the Brinks truck for the kid.  


@mikeghg

#405 BaltBird 24

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 10:09 AM

Gunnar is the most important franchise player.

Everyone arguing over Jackson's extension.

Gunnar is the guy.
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#406 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 10:12 AM

I’m ready to say he’s the best Orioles player I’ve seen in my lifetime.

#407 BaltBird 24

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 10:16 AM

Gunnar / Machado is a tough debate.

Easily the two best position players the Orioles have developed in the last 40 years.

#408 DuffMan

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 11:47 AM

I’m ready to say he’s the best Orioles player I’ve seen in my lifetime.

Took him at +2000 for MVP back in March, he's already down to +750



#409 hallas

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 02:08 PM

I’m ready to say he’s the best Orioles player I’ve seen in my lifetime.

 

You weren't a fan during the Cal years?  I followed his 1991 season pretty closely when he put up like a top-15 all time statistical season for a team that lost 95 games  :oops:



#410 CantonJester

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 10:55 PM

You weren't a fan during the Cal years?  I followed his 1991 season pretty closely when he put up like a top-15 all time statistical season for a team that lost 95 games  :oops:

 

Cal was never as dynamic as Gunnar can become. 



#411 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 11:03 PM


You weren't a fan during the Cal years? I followed his 1991 season pretty closely when he put up like a top-15 all time statistical season for a team that lost 95 games :oops:

He was like 6 in '91. Gunnar wont have Cal's career but Cal is a 96 WAR inner circle HOFer

#412 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 11:05 PM


Cal was never as dynamic as Gunnar can become.

Gunnar has a chance to have the better offensive career. Though the 1st half of Cal's career he was very good offensively. Gunnar wont sniff being the total player Cal was. Cal is one of the best defenders in MLB history.

#413 BaltBird 24

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Posted 25 April 2024 - 11:20 PM

Cal was great until 30 and then hit a wall and became a very average offensively.

#414 Cisc-O's

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Posted 26 April 2024 - 09:00 AM

Cal was great until 30 and then hit a wall and became a very average offensively.

I don't buy he was average.  I have never taken league average numbers and compared them to Cal's during the 90's but I bet he was above league average over 90% of his career.


<p>I am pretty sure Shack is thinking of PBR.

#415 makoman

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Posted 26 April 2024 - 09:34 AM

Cal had an OPS+/wRC+ below 100 in 7 of 10 years after 1991. Above every year '82-'91.

 

We aren't going to see any of Gunnar's 30s here, if he can match Cal's early career I think everyone will be thrilled.



#416 Mackus

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Posted 26 April 2024 - 09:52 AM

I think comparing to league average probably does Cal a disservice. Haven't looked it up recently, but I think SS was a much more below average offensive position in the 80s and early 90s than it is now. So a SS with a 120 OPS+ in the 80s was probably a better player than a SS with a 120 OPS+ today. Not sure if WAR or wRC+ make changes to take historical positional adjustments into account or just use the standard ones all the time.
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#417 Cisc-O's

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Posted 26 April 2024 - 09:57 AM

I think comparing to league average probably does Cal a disservice. Haven't looked it up recently, but I think SS was a much more below average offensive position in the 80s and early 90s than it is now. So a SS with a 120 OPS+ in the 80s was probably a better player than a SS with a 120 OPS+ today. Not sure if WAR or wRC+ make changes to take historical positional adjustments into account or just use the standard ones all the time.

Was just about to bring this up!  Comparing Cal to Jose, Mark and the likes does under value what Cal meant to his position until 96.  Then when he moved to Third ok you can start comparing him to some of the mashers.


<p>I am pretty sure Shack is thinking of PBR.

#418 makoman

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Posted 26 April 2024 - 10:30 AM

I think comparing to league average probably does Cal a disservice. Haven't looked it up recently, but I think SS was a much more below average offensive position in the 80s and early 90s than it is now. So a SS with a 120 OPS+ in the 80s was probably a better player than a SS with a 120 OPS+ today. Not sure if WAR or wRC+ make changes to take historical positional adjustments into account or just use the standard ones all the time.

This is probably true. bWAR gave Cal a pretty consistent 10 or 11 runs for positional value in the 80s. As a recent example, Swanson played 162 games at SS in 2022 and also got 10 for position. Ernie Banks was getting 9 for playing 154 games in the 50s. Honus Wagner played all over but got 10 in '08 and '12 when he played only SS for 151 and 143 games. So no real change in WAR due to differences in SS play over the years. I didn't look at fWAR, I don't know if it clearly shows you positional adjustment somewhere.

 

I don't believe OPS+ or wRC+ care about your position either, they care about your league average and ballpark. Being a somewhat unique hitter for a SS was a big part of what made him special.



#419 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 26 April 2024 - 06:34 PM

The sOPS+ column is his OPS relative to the league average for all shortstops so he remained better than the average shortstop for his whole time at the position 

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#420 dude

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Posted 28 April 2024 - 05:12 PM

Cal was great until 30 and then hit a wall and became a very average offensively.

 

Cal is 43rd in All-Time oWAR and is one of 8 players in MLB history with 600 Doubles and 400 HR.

 

Projection is fine, but longevity is hard.  Cal is already in the Clubhouse.

 

Gunnar isn't going to be a career Oriole.






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