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John Means


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#241 Mackus

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Posted 02 September 2023 - 12:30 PM

I'm fine with letting him return or make one more minor league start.  Velocity has not been very good, so trying to figure out how to get a couple ticks back would be my focus if keeping him down one more.  But seems reasonable to me to throw him back against MLB hitters and let the velocity come back, if it's gonna, over the rest of the month up here.  I think I'd trust him at least as much as Gibson and Irvin even if he can only hit the low 90s.


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#242 85Knight

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Posted 02 September 2023 - 12:41 PM

I'm fine with letting him return or make one more minor league start. Velocity has not been very good, so trying to figure out how to get a couple ticks back would be my focus if keeping him down one more. But seems reasonable to me to throw him back against MLB hitters and let the velocity come back, if it's gonna, over the rest of the month up here. I think I'd trust him at least as much as Gibson and Irvin even if he can only hit the low 90s.


That's really where things are right now. He's only going to get stronger if he pitches and really at the major league level. Is he already our 4th best starter? That's the question we need answered.

#243 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 September 2023 - 12:52 PM


I'm fine with letting him return or make one more minor league start. Velocity has not been very good, so trying to figure out how to get a couple ticks back would be my focus if keeping him down one more. But seems reasonable to me to throw him back against MLB hitters and let the velocity come back, if it's gonna, over the rest of the month up here. I think I'd trust him at least as much as Gibson and Irvin even if he can only hit the low 90s.

Means is one of those pitchers who has a clue and doesn’t need mid-90’s to stay respectable IMO. But I’m right where you are with this. Good either way. Excited he’s nearing his return.

#244 makoman

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Posted 02 September 2023 - 03:30 PM

Yeah as long as he has a feel for his change up and there’s sufficient separation I’d feel ok with him even at 90-91. More ok with him than Irvin and Gibson, at least, maybe more.

#245 85Knight

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Posted 04 September 2023 - 03:27 PM

Means is making another rehab start before joining the team in Boston. Hopefully he's lights out for 5 or 6 innings. That would be a helluva boost to the rotation down the stretch. I always say every Cinderella story needs a miracle.
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#246 Mackus

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Posted 04 September 2023 - 04:03 PM

I'd take more encouragement from an uptick in velocity, even if he gets hit around, than good statline but with the same 90-92 MPH fastball he's reportedly had. I agree with those who say he doesn't have to have his good velo to be successful, but it would make it easier.

#247 85Knight

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Posted 04 September 2023 - 04:34 PM

I think he'll get stronger with each start. Hopefully he can get 3 or 4 in this month at the major league level. I'm just hoping for 6 innings and a quality start for the most part. That would be an upgrade to what we're getting from the back of the rotation right now.

#248 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 04 September 2023 - 06:32 PM

I'd like to get him up sooner rather than later. Hard to watch Flaherty/Gibson of late and Irvin makes me shudder.



#249 Mike B

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Posted 05 September 2023 - 08:20 AM

I don't think any of the bottom 3 in our rotation have been bad, just basically what the bottom of a major league rotation looks like.  They keep us in the game and the Orioles more times than not win.  

That said, I expect Mean's velocity continue to build and if it does he really gives this surging team even another boost.  


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#250 85Knight

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Posted 05 September 2023 - 05:02 PM

I don't think any of the bottom 3 in our rotation have been bad, just basically what the bottom of a major league rotation looks like. They keep us in the game and the Orioles more times than not win.
That said, I expect Mean's velocity continue to build and if it does he really gives this surging team even another boost.


Camden Chats says his velocity is 90-92 and it was 91.7 pre-injury so he's ok there. They said his changeup command needs to be better but everything else looks fine.

https://www.camdench...rehab-news-2023

#251 makoman

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Posted 05 September 2023 - 05:19 PM

Camden Chats says his velocity is 90-92 and it was 91.7 pre-injury so he's ok there. They said his changeup command needs to be better but everything else looks fine.

https://www.camdench...rehab-news-2023

He was mostly in the 91s in 2019 so he can certainly be fine there. He was like 93-95 in 2020 and 92-93 in 2021. You'd prefer more velocity obviously, but yeah, how effective the change is will be more important.

 

https://www.brooksba...5/2023&s_type=2



#252 Mackus

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Posted 05 September 2023 - 05:49 PM

Camden Chats says his velocity is 90-92 and it was 91.7 pre-injury so he's ok there. They said his changeup command needs to be better but everything else looks fine.

https://www.camdench...rehab-news-2023

He was 91.7 in 2022, when he made two starts before leaving with his injury.

92.8 in 2021. 93.8 in 2020 (shorter season of course).

Back down at 91.7 in 2019.


I don't think being 90-92 means he can't be successful, but I'd be much happier if he was 91-93. Agree that the 9 MPH delta between fast and change is more important than an extra 1-2 MPH on everything. But having both would be even better.
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#253 85Knight

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Posted 12 September 2023 - 02:04 PM

I was hoping for a John Means return all season to bolster the rotation and maybe even put them over the top. Now as our young pitchers hit the wall we might need him just to hold things together.

Hopefully this season doesn't end with the front office being blasted for not adequately upgrading the starting pitching staff but we're starting to take on water and Means might be our last hope.

#254 85Knight

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Posted 12 September 2023 - 10:13 PM

He said he didn't really have a breaking ball tonight but he was happy with his fastball and changeup. He said he felt fine physically and that's the most important part. I say give him 2 or 3 more starts and sign him up for October.
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#255 BobPhelan

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Posted 12 September 2023 - 11:07 PM

I’ve seen enough, pencil him in as game 3 starter.
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#256 Mackus

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 06:26 AM

I’ve seen enough, pencil him in as game 3 starter.

 

Yup.  Certainly ahead of Gibson, Irvin, and Flaherty for me in terms of confidence.  I would consider Kremer for a spot ahead of him, will see how the next couple starts go.


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#257 makoman

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 07:29 AM

Yup. Certainly ahead of Gibson, Irvin, and Flaherty for me in terms of confidence. I would consider Kremer for a spot ahead of him, will see how the next couple starts go.


I feel like Kremer is more likely to pitch a really good game than those guys, like 1 run in 6 innings, but still almost as likely to have like a 5 runs in 4 innings game. A healthyish Means should be better and less likely to implode I hope, I’ll take him at 3 unless he proves otherwise next few weeks.

#258 mweb08

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 08:15 AM

I think the ballpark is a factor here. Having a lefty at Camden Yards should be helpful.
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#259 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 08:49 AM

I'll be excited about Means next Spring.   Right now, I think him, Gibson, Irvin is basically flipping a coin. 
Maybe a few more starts, and I'll feel that much better about him.



#260 Mackus

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 09:05 AM

I think the ballpark is a factor here. Having a lefty at Camden Yards should be helpful.

 

Good point.  Opponent will matter, too.  Houston, Texas and Toronto hit LHP a good bit better than RHP.  Tampa and Seattle are stronger against RHP.  






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