1602 replies to this topic

[BobPhelan]

When is Turner a FA? Dodgers are so loaded

After 2022

[Mackus]

Seems like not enough for both of them, IMO. Pending how good the other prospects are.

One of the top-2 guys for Scherzer sounds right. Just the other one of them for Turner with an additional year of control seems light.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Looks like the Nats are definitely waking up to the reality that they made a huge mistake on Stras, and Soto is going to be a mega contract, and they are going to do whatever it takes to keep him.

I was wondering how they were going to keep Turner and Soto. Guess they weren't.

[Mike in STL]

This trade brought to you by, the Baltimore Orioles and their efforts last weekend.

[BSLChrisStoner]

CBS Sports: Juan Soto reportedly rejected Nationals' $350 million extension before MLB lockout; here's why he's worth more

https://www.cbssport...hes-worth-more/

[Nigel Tufnel]

Also Ryan Zimmerman retired.

[BSLChrisStoner]

FanGraphs: The Nationals' $350 Million Extension Offer Undersold Juan Soto

[weird-O]

It's a risky business decision to turn down that offer. It leads me to think that Soto is playing out the clock, waiting to leave DC for the team he really wants to play for. 

 

Meanwhile the Orioles are asking arb players to defer their raise.  

[You Play to Win the Game]

It's a risky business decision to turn down that offer. It leads me to think that Soto is playing out the clock, waiting to leave DC for the team he really wants to play for.

Meanwhile the Orioles are asking arb players to defer their raise.

Maybe. But the Nats did acquire his younger brother, which apparently is a big part of it for Juan.

https://www.cbssport...nt-in-2023/amp/

I think it’s more that he realizes he’s a generational talent, already won a World Series and his brand is already huge and only going to get bigger. So he’s waiting it out to set the new record.

[weird-O]

Maybe. But the Nats did acquire his younger brother, which apparently is a big part of it for Juan.

https://www.cbssport...nt-in-2023/amp/

I think it’s more that he realizes he’s a generational talent, already won a World Series and his brand is already huge and only going to get bigger. So he’s waiting it out to set the new record.

I'm all for a player getting his payday, but this is the sort of thing that makes me dislike pro athletes. That's an enormous amount of money, but it's not enough. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Nats can play it however they want imo.  They've got him under control through '24. 

If they want to keep him around for '22 and '23 and try and compete with him; that's fine. 

If they don't think the '22 and '23 teams are built to contend, they could trade him now with all of this remaining team control and get back anything they want. 

 

If they trade him after '23, they'll still get a nice haul. 

 

But if he's not interested in a deal now during his arbitration years.... then I wouldn't bend over to give him more than they offered.

 

I mean they could bump it up some if inclined, add opt outs... but I don't think they need to. 

 

Ridiculous offensive talent, but the best years of his career figure to be right now... while you already control his rights. So he can get the long-term guarantee now, and be the face of that franchise forever...  or not. 

 

I do think if you make your best offer, and the guy says no... I'd be more inclined to trade him, vs. keeping him around. You either want to be some place or you don't.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'm all for a player getting his payday, but this is the sort of thing that makes me dislike pro athletes. That's an enormous amount of money, but it's not enough. 

Maybe he doesn't want to be there? 

Or maybe he wants every dime he can get. 

Neither make him a bad guy or wrong imo.

[weird-O]

Nats can play it however they want imo.  They've got him under control through '24. 

If they want to keep him around for '22 and '23 and try and compete with him; that's fine. 

If they don't think the '22 and '23 teams are built to contend, they could trade him now with all of this remaining team control and get back anything they want. 

 

If they trade him after '23, they'll still get a nice haul. 

 

But if he's not interested in a deal now during his arbitration years.... then I wouldn't bend over to give him more than they offered.

 

I mean they could bump it up some if inclined, add opt outs... but I don't think they need to. 

 

Ridiculous offensive talent, but the best years of his career figure to be right now... while you already control his rights. So he can get the long-term guarantee now, and be the face of that franchise forever...  or not. 

 

I do think if you make your best offer, and the guy says no... I'd be more inclined to trade him, vs. keeping him around. You either want to be some place or you don't.

 

 

Maybe he doesn't want to be there? 

Or maybe he wants every dime he can get. 

Neither make him a bad guy or wrong imo.

Lots of good points. I agree with your thoughts about his possibly not wanting to be there. That's fine, go where your heart takes you. But if it's just about the temporary ability to thump your chest and say you have the highest salary to date, that's the selfishness that doesn't appeal to me. But as you said, it's his career, it's his choice. But it stands as an example of that divide between players and teams that won't ever go away. Both sides are to blame.

[dude]

.... his possibly not wanting to be there. That's fine, go where your heart takes you. But if it's just about the temporary ability to thump your chest and say you have the highest salary to date, that's the selfishness that doesn't appeal to me. But as you said, it's his career, it's his choice. But it stands as an example of that divide between players and teams that won't ever go away. Both sides are to blame.

 

His agent is Scott Boras.  This heads down a path not specifically related to the Nationals, but Scott Boras has been the most antagonistic person between MLB and Labor.

 

If you go back a couple years to when Harper was a couple years out from FA, the headline was "400M?" ...and one of the quips inside was "don't sell me short".  There was a "500M" discussion (likely driven by Boras and his media sycophants) but that's what he wants you to believe.

 

He didn't get it with Harper and Harper had to crush his AAV to get to the total dollars he wanted to set a (then) record. 

 

Soto is his next opportunity to set a record.   What will be important is that the "Boras approach" will change back to 3 years ago, not what they've done the last 2 years, once the new CBA is signed.

[dude]

Everyone seems to think the Nats are stepping back. but I think Washington could be the team most sitting the weeds waiting to strike once the next CBA is complete.

 

They have significant, current investments and control for guys like Soto is limited to 3 years.

 

There's no way to get value out of Soto (nobody has the pieces you'd need/want to get a deal done) so you'd need to tie him to contracts like Strasburg and Corbin, plus prospects.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Everyone seems to think the Nats are stepping back. but I think Washington could be the team most sitting the weeds waiting to strike once the next CBA is complete.

 

They have significant, current investments and control for guys like Soto is limited to 3 years.

 

There's no way to get value out of Soto (nobody has the pieces you'd need/want to get a deal done) so you'd need to tie him to contracts like Strasburg and Corbin, plus prospects.

Dodgers have 4 of the Top 100 prospects or so... they offer May or Lux and them...  DC says no? Maybe, but I think DC has to think about it, with all of those years of control.

 

Diego Cartaya, C

Ryan Pepiot, RHP
Bobby Miller, RHP
Andy Pages, OF

[You Play to Win the Game]

Whenever I start to get frustrated over an athlete wanting more money, I remember who they're wanting it from, and I'm good. 

[weird-O]

Whenever I start to get frustrated over an athlete wanting more money, I remember who they're wanting it from, and I'm good. 

I hear ya. That's why I tried to be very specific with how I phrased things so that I didn't give the impression that I'm on Team Ownership. It was their historical greed that forged the FA system.  

[dude]

Dodgers have 4 of the Top 100 prospects or so... they offer May or Lux and them...  DC says no? Maybe, but I think DC has to think about it, with all of those years of control.

 

Diego Cartaya, C

Ryan Pepiot, RHP
Bobby Miller, RHP
Andy Pages, OF

 

LA would trade those 5 guys for Soto in a heartbeat.  You aren't adding anything special with those 5 guys.  I have no idea why Law thinks the Dodgers have the #1 system.  

 

Now...

Does Soto, Strasburg, Corbin for Bellinger, Price, Lux, Pepiot, Gonsolin and Pages start to be interesting?  At some point you have trouble finding the value match. 

 

I think you'd have to look at a team like Detroit that's trying to raise their profile....but would they trade Torkleson and Greene?  Would they take back the active Strasburg?

[BSLChrisStoner]

CBS Sports: Nationals, Nelson Cruz agree to one-year, $15 million deal, per reports

https://www.cbssport...al-per-reports/