1602 replies to this topic

[dude]

Everyone seems to think the Nats are stepping back. but I think Washington could be the team most sitting the weeds waiting to strike once the next CBA is complete.

 

Interesting first move.  You aren't signing Cruz to hold back.

 

Story would make a lot of sense there.

You could gets KK and Lowe from the Rays.

Santander from the Orioles.

Moustakas+ or Suarez from the Reds.

 

2B Lowe

SS Story

LF Soto

DH Cruz

1B Bell

RF Santander

3B Moustakas

C  Ruiz

CF KK

 

I hate am not a fan of what they've got at 2B/SS/3B today.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Leonsis, Carlyle Group Co-Founder Reportedly Eyeing Nationals 

Brett Davis-USA TODAY Sports

Ted Leonsis could add a huge piece to his Washington, D.C., sports empire.

The owner of the Washington Wizards, Capitals, and Mystics is reportedly interested in purchasing the Washington Nationals, who are considering a sale. 

Leonsis owns those teams, their home venue Capital One Arena, and a handful of other properties through Monumental Sports & Entertainment, which he founded and leads as CEO and chair.

Leonsis would reportedly team up with Carlyle Group co-founder David Rubenstein, who has a net worth of $4.1 billion, per Forbes. Leonsis has a net worth of $1.6 billion. 

• The Nationals were purchased by the Lerner family for $450 million in 2006. Ted Lerner, 96, handed management of the team over to his son Mark in 2018.
• The team is valued at $2 billion by Forbes, 12th in MLB.
• Allen & Company, which handled the 2020 sale of the New York Mets for $2.4 billion, is conducting an exploratory process for the Nationals, who have not committed to a sale.

Sign Now, Pay Later

The Nationals have used deferred payments in major contracts and owe over $230 million to Max Scherzer, who signed with the New York Mets last offseason, and Stephen Strasburg, who is currently recovering from surgery.

The team also holds around $500 million in debt.

[BSLChrisStoner]

CBS Sports: Nationals will not trade Juan Soto, GM says: 'Every intention of building this team around' star outfielder

https://www.cbssport...tar-outfielder/

[bmore_ken]

CBS Sports: Nationals will not trade Juan Soto, GM says: 'Every intention of building this team around' star outfielder

https://www.cbssport...tar-outfielder/

How do you turn down $440M? He must really not want to play for the Nationals. 

[dude]

How do you turn down $440M? He must really not want to play for the Nationals. 

 

Boras is his agent.  He probably wants 500M.  Could really hurt his client, but that's their call.   Mike Soroka wasn't planning on tearing his achilles.  You can go down the list.  Wieters didn't sign a big contract looking for Mauer money and that wound up being a terrible decision in terms of lifetime money.

 

Side note: Henderson recently switched to Boras, so you should anticipate this tactic to FA and plan accordingly (when you promote him, when you trade him, no extension opportunity).

 

I was going to point Soto out earlier in a "If I could do what I want" thread expecting them to make him available as they transition to non-competitive behavior.  The Orioles won't be involved, but they absolutely could, if that was interesting.

[mdrunning]

Other than locking himself in to guaranteed cash in case he blows out a knee or comes down with a serious case of suck between now and 2024, there's really no incentive for Soto to sign with Washington. The Lerners are going to sell the team, and there's no way of knowing the level of commitment to winning from the new ownership group. 

 

This is a team in need of a complete overhaul. The farm system is thin (although last year's deadline trades did bolster the ranks somewhat), and there's no combination of Harper/Strasburg/Rendon ready to come up and make a contribution. The pitching is weak and needs to be rebuilt. It could be a few years until the team is truly competitive again.

 

The numbers may look staggering in the aggregate, but in truth, the average annual value of the Nationals' offer is less than what several players are already getting. Mike Trout comes to mind, and the Yankees' $213 million offer to Aaron Judge would have paid out an average of $30.5 million per annum had he accepted. Max Scherzer is pulling down $43.3 million per year with the Mets, albeit over a shorter term. It should be noted, however, that Washington's offer to Soto contained no deferred money.

 

It's been said (by Scott Boras) that Scott Boras is not for everyone and not everyone is for Scott Boras. We'll find out if Soto truly is. With the Nationals far out of contention, he's likely going to be asked incessantly about his long-term status because it's the biggest story surrounding the team right now. The games are pretty much an afterthought at this point, so the focus is going to be on how much longer he'll actually be with the team, and there's going to be all sorts of speculation as to what type of offers other teams would make for a rising superstar with two years of team control left. Soto is also reportedly unhappy the story came out, but the cat's out of the bag, and he's going to have to deal with it.

[NewMarketSean]

I just don't see how the sport can afford handing out half-billion-dollar contracts. Attendance is down and viewership is too. Baseball just isn't where football is. Something's gotta give.

[BSLChrisStoner]

The 2019 World Champs are 32-61, carrying a -149 run differential. 

I've seen a lot recent negative stories on the Nats...  poor existing roster, poor system... 

"Soto can't sign that extension if he wants to win." 

(I have no idea what that even means... if you are signing a 10-15 year extension, does it matter the position of the current roster?) 

 

 

Anyway, if you were a fan of the Nats...  would you be thinking this organization won a title in the not-so-distant past... I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt they can figure out how to build another contender... or would you be wanting wholesale changes within the Baseball Operations leadership?

[Mackus]

I'm a "5 years after a championship before lodging major complaints" type of fan.  That's in general, though.  Extreme behavior can accelerate that window, such as a teardown with no intentions to rebuild like the Marlins have done.  I don't know enough about what the Nats have done to know, but I doubt they're at Marlins level of bad faith operations.

[You Play to Win the Game]

They’ve got a great FO. It would be foolish to chase them out of town.

They’ve deservedly had a bit of Murphy’s Law, after one of the luckiest Championship runs I’ve ever seen. Still shocked they didn’t lose the Wild Card game, they should’ve.

But they had a sustained window of success for a while there, culminating in a title. Since then, they’ve had to navigate the financial future of the organization wrt to Soto, the guys they chose to spend on (Stras vs. Rendon) has been mostly hurt or just awful (Corbin). And a few other bad breaks. I’d think their fans would still believe in Rizzo.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

As I said somewhere else recently, Martinez is one of the worst managers to win a WS in a long time

[JeremyStrain]

Don't think so. dude is right. All of Scherzer's 2019-2021 salary ($35M/year, $105M total) is deferred until 2022-2028 ($15M/year, $105M total).

https://legacy.baseb...gton-nationals/

I think it's possible that he may have to prorate 1/7th of the $50M bonus. MLB accounts for signing bonus in luxury tax calculations as being equally applied across the guaranteed years of the contract. I don't know if there is language in his contract or the MLBPA or the agreement about 2020 that would apply to signing bonuses. But it would make sense if there were.

If I recall, that portion may have been an extension. I thought I remember those specific terms for something. Could have agreed to it with the specific payout later.

But either way they can specify any cash payout schedule they want in terms, but like you said, MLB calculates it for payroll and luxury tax purposes a certain way so that teams can’t get advantage. Say like paying a huge bonus in one year when they had a low payroll and then none of that count against their payroll numbers the next 5 years. They could be conflicting methods and both be correct.

[ivanbalt]

I just don't see how the sport can afford handing out half-billion-dollar contracts. Attendance is down and viewership is too. Baseball just isn't where football is. Something's gotta give.

The Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox can afford it so that's all that really matters to MLB in the end.  The other teams can just drown.

[Mackus]

I just don't see how the sport can afford handing out half-billion-dollar contracts. Attendance is down and viewership is too. Baseball just isn't where football is. Something's gotta give.

 

Its not really a seismic change of a contract offer annually, just a really long one.  Under $30M per year for the FA years (assuming he'd get about $60M over the next two years through arbitration).  That's less than Manny got as a FA, 3 years later on so you'd expect inflation to take hold (moreso baseball inflation but there's also been real-world inflation that we've seen recently).

 

The length is why it's wild.  But a deal like this won't change anything economically for MLB as a whole, IMO.  Anytime there is a uniquely good player hitting free agency at a uniquely young time, you're gonna see a wild number because of the amount of length that player can insist upon.

[Mike B]

The Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox can afford it so that's all that really matters to MLB in the end.  The other teams can just drown.

It is true, and sad, but it also made me laugh.

[Mike B]

As for Soto, to turn down that much money, he as to be one of two things.  He is either a dumb ass or he just does not want to play in DC.

 

I think it may be the second, because he does not strike me as dumb.

[Mackus]

As for Soto, to turn down that much money, he as to be one of two things.  He is either a dumb ass or he just does not want to play in DC.

 

I think it may be the second, because he does not strike me as dumb.

 

Is Lamar a dumb ass for turning down $38M a year or whatever? 

 

The Nats offer was probably 80% of what Soto will get as a FA.  He's gonna get at least $55M over the next two years through arbitration, so its really a 13/$385M extension.  That's less than $30M a year, which would leave him outside the top-15 or so in average salary.  Its less annually than Manny per year got 3 years ago.  No deferred money, but reportedly heavily backloaded into the final 6 years, which reduces the value quite a bit compared to something evenly paid like Manny got.

[CantonJester]

Is Lamar a dumb ass for turning down $38M a year or whatever? 

 

The Nats offer was probably 80% of what Soto will get as a FA.  He's gonna get at least $55M over the next two years through arbitration, so its really a 13/$385M extension.  That's less than $30M a year, which would leave him outside the top-15 or so in average salary.  Its less annually than Manny per year got 3 years ago.  No deferred money, but reportedly heavily backloaded into the final 6 years, which reduces the value quite a bit compared to something evenly paid like Manny got.

 

No, Lamar is a dumbass because he is trying to be the smartest man in the room by representing himself. He has a fool for a client, and the sooner he wises up, the better the Ravens’ prospects become.

 

I don’t think Rizzo/Lerner made that offer thinking Soto was going to accept it. They made it to shed future payroll. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

FanGraphs: With Juan Soto Available, the Nationals Have Upended the Trade Market

[Nigel Tufnel]

Jones in response to the news that the Nats didn't charter a plane to take Soto to the ASG.

 

 

10@SimplyAJ10·

 

I’ve paid for 3 of the 5 times I made the ASG. But we only had 1 player the first 3 times and I wasn’t no damn Soto lol. But last 2 they paid and for 2016 for the guys in SD. More ppl. But I love reading the comments. If you don’t know something just say that ppl. It’s easy

 

 

10@SimplyAJ10·

 

Oh yea I asked once and was denied @JonHeyman so guess what. I paid for it and had it full with my teammates and family and Popeyes chicken