107 replies to this topic

[Oriole85]

I knew that about Phelps. Bad example I guess. Tiger Woods? Callaway or Titleist could endorse some great amatuer golfers.

I didn't know there was a stipend in place.

Yeah I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I believe they have a housing allowance if they live off-campus -- I seem to recall some athletes at my school talking about that. I need to look into this more. The bottomline with the stipend, it's not much though.

 

If amateur golfers were being endorsed (and realize in terms of golf, that includes high school players), they might as well just go pro. I know many top high school golfers don't even play for their high school teams. It be like if LeBron didn't play for Saint Vincent-St. Mary's. I think it's a bit different in these individual sports. I think they are more in school for the education, sure they can get coaching but many of them probably already have elite private coaches. It's not like there's a draft or anything, they can pretty much leave at any point -- they just have to qualify for the PGA Tour.

[DJ MC]

Agreed some sort of payment should be given and a stipend is the best way to go. In fact I'm also not entirely sure they don't receive stipends either. Although not really related at all, at UD music grad students get stipends but undergraduates do not. My brother didn't get a stipend playing college baseball but gets one now as a grad student assistant coach. Regardless, I do agree that it's quite unfair how much money schools , coaches, trainers, etc make off the athletes while the players have to walk such a straight and narrow line in terms of accepting any gifts or signing autographs.

 

When I was at College Park, the student newspaper paid reporters per story and editors received stipends/salaries (I think the EIC got around $10K). They could do that because they made enough in ad revenue.

 

I don't see how a money-making football or basketball team should be any different.

[mweb08]

When I was at College Park, the student newspaper paid reporters per story and editors received stipends/salaries (I think the EIC got around $10K). They could do that because they made enough in ad revenue.

 

I don't see how a money-making football or basketball team should be any different.

 

Agreed. And with Kelly's music example, I'm not sure that the department even makes much or any money.

[Oriole85]

When I was at College Park, the student newspaper paid reporters per story and editors received stipends/salaries (I think the EIC got around $10K). They could do that because they made enough in ad revenue.

 

I don't see how a money-making football or basketball team should be any different.

My mom was Managing Editor or something back in the day at The Diamondback, I'll have to ask her what she made.

[Oriole85]

Agreed. And with Kelly's music example, I'm not sure that the department even makes much or any money.

So should every student-athlete be paid including the non-revenue sports?

 

I'm not sure if there are going to be any Title IX issues in terms of pay? I don't think so since coaches get paid differently.

 

 

I know Kelly didn't mention this but music students can make money on the side and I'm sure they do (playing at weddings, at clubs, etc), right? Johnny Manziel for example (and this is just an example) isn't allowed to be paid for private QB lessons.

[DJ MC]

So should every student-athlete be paid including the non-revenue sports?

 

I'm not sure if there are going to be any Title IX issues in terms of pay? I don't think so since coaches get paid differently.

 

 

I know Kelly didn't mention this but music students can make money on the side and I'm sure they do (playing at weddings, at clubs, etc), right? Johnny Manziel for example (and this is just an example) isn't allowed to be paid for private QB lessons.

 

I think that if your program brings money into the university, you should receive pay. So football and men's basketball, for sure.

 

Beyond that, I don't really know. Women's basketball and lacrosse and soccer and baseball and hockey might be moneymakers for certain schools, but they aren't designed as such like the other two so that could lead to either schools chipping in money or simply no one paying those athletes.

[mweb08]

So should every student-athlete be paid including the non-revenue sports?

 

I'm not sure if there are going to be any Title IX issues in terms of pay? I don't think so since coaches get paid differently.

 

 

I know Kelly didn't mention this but music students can make money on the side and I'm sure they do (playing at weddings, at clubs, etc), right? Johnny Manziel for example (and this is just an example) isn't allowed to be paid for private QB lessons.

 

Well they probably have just as much right to being paid as do most music students (UD at least distinguishes between grad and undergrad for this as she said), but I think a scholarship is a fair return for a sport that isn't making the school money. In the sports that do generate money, I think the athletes should get a cut.

[Oriole85]

I think that if your program brings money into the university, you should receive pay. So football and men's basketball, for sure.

 

Beyond that, I don't really know. Women's basketball and lacrosse and soccer and baseball and hockey might be moneymakers for certain schools, but they aren't designed as such like the other two so that could lead to either schools chipping in money or simply no one paying those athletes.

Not all BCS schools even turn a profit in men's basketball I believe. Colorado is only entering it's third year where it remains profitable for example. I read UConn women's basketball loses money (might be because they are paying Geno like $2 million a year). I know baseball is in some places profitable -- many SEC schools and FSU it happens. I'm guessing hockey would in Vermont, Minnesota, North Dakota, but I'm not entirely sure. So yeah at many schools, you're only talking about one program, sometimes two, occasionally three programs that are profitable. Are there any that have more, possibly.

[Oriole85]

Well they probably have just as much right to being paid as do most music students (UD at least distinguishes between grad and undergrad for this as she said), but I think a scholarship is a fair return for a sport that isn't making the school money. In the sports that do generate money, I think the athletes should get a cut.

Ok so they get a cut. How do you go about paying the athletes? Do all FBS programs payout the same across the board to it's player? Does it vary by conference or even individual program? Then within a program -- do they all get paid the same? -- does the starting QB get paid more than the back-up punter?

[mweb08]

Oriole85, on 03 Oct 2013 - 17:13, said:
Ok so they get a cut. How do you go about paying the athletes? Do all FBS programs payout the same across the board to it's player? Does it vary by conference or even individual program? Then within a program -- do they all get paid the same? -- does the starting QB get paid more than the back-up punter?

I think it would probably have to be tiered in terms of how much schools pay out. BCS schools pay more than do schools from the small conferences.

As for how much to pay each player, I'm not sure about that one.

There's no doubt that the solution is very complex beyond just saying pay the players, and no solution will be perfect, but a system that pays the players is an improvement almost regardless of how flawed it is.

Ultimately, I like what Kornheiser has been saying about the BCS schools just ditching the NCAA and forming their own system where they don't have to share any revenue with the small schools and they can distribute some of the profit to the players, and then the issue of how much an SEC school pays out vs a Sun Belt school pays goes away.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think it would probably have to be tiered in terms of how much schools pay out. BCS schools pay more than do schools from the small conferences. 

 

As for how much to pay each player, I'm not sure about that one. 

 

There's no doubt that the solution is very complex beyond just saying pay the players, and no solution will be perfect, but a system that pays the players is an improvement almost regardless of how flawed it is.

 

 

Yeah, this is where I get kinda stuck too. I don't want BCS schools to even pay more, because that gives them even more of a recruiting advantage, and just isn't fair. At the same time, pretending that BCS schools don't already have an insane advantage is naive as well, but I just don't want to add to it. As it is, BCS schools are investing heavily in their programs, just not in the players themselves (so far as we know, anyway). Doing things like building state of the art practice facilities, in-door practice facilities, premium strength & conditioning buildings, becoming flag ship sponsorship schools for their respective apparel companies, etc., are all major advantages that BCS schools already have over the smaller schools. That's not to mention the school's not having any limit as to what they can pay a stud head coach and coaching staff in general.

 

Either way, common sense needs to permeate the NCAA at some point or another, and this has to be fixed somehow. I just don't entirely know what the solution is. 

[Oriole85]

ESPN: Schools push for stronger agent laws

 

http://espn.go.com/c...nger-agent-laws

[DJ MC]

Federal judge partly OKs amateurism and likeness lawsuit against NCAA

 

It's officially a class-action lawsuit.

[DJ MC]

Settled for $40m.

 

EA Sports Sued by a Desperate NCAA Over the Game it Endorsed and Made

[Oriole85]

ESPN: NCAA holds firm: No pay for play

 

http://espn.go.com/c...ay-model-coming

 

The semi-annual message from Emmert...

 

"There's certainly no interest in turning college sports into the professional or semi-professional," Emmert said at the IMG Intercollegiate Athletics Forum in New York City.

[DJ MC]

I like how he said it at a conference sponsored by a major international sports marketing corporation.

 

Someone needs to organize all college students (including athletes) for a universal coup d'tat on the president's office at every school, along with NCAA headquarters.

[DJ MC]

The NCAA Is Not Going To Tolerate Excess Education

 

A recurring theme of these declarations is that the universities are committed, foremost, to educating their student-athletes. Really? Then why on earth is it against the rules to help a high school football player get into college? You've heard of destroying a village in order to save it. I guess the NCAA is punishing efforts to educate athletes in order to educate them.

[Oriole85]

ESPN: APU banner to fly over Rose Bowl

 

http://espn.go.com/c...-fly-title-game

[DJ MC]

ESPN: OTL: Northwestern Wildcats football players trying to join labor union

 

Deadspin: Northwestern Football Players Are Trying To Unionize

 

PFT: NFLPA backs efforts of college players to unionize

 

The PFT post says that 30% of the team had to sign union cards (in this case, for the National College Players Association) to file with the NLRB, and the Deadspin post says that an "overwhelming majority" have done so.

[Mackus]

How you pronounce that word will tell you if you're a plumber or an electrical engineer.

 

[/bad joke]