397 replies to this topic

[DJ MC]

I remember him doing an Interview from the dugout during the FOX game ot the week with the Angels. He said this year he's not trying so hard to strike guys out, cliche cliche cliche, solid defense behind me, cliche, let the hitters put the ball in play.

Why change what made him so successful a year ago? Or, he's hurt and won't go down until a couple more bad starts, just like Halladay and Price.

I think the Crash Davis stuff is mostly BS. He wouldn't change what was working that drastically. I'm going with "he's hurt".

[JeremyStrain]

I remember him doing an Interview from the dugout during the FOX game ot the week with the Angels. He said this year he's not trying so hard to strike guys out, cliche cliche cliche, solid defense behind me, cliche, let the hitters put the ball in play.

Why change what made him so successful a year ago? Or, he's hurt and won't go down until a couple more bad starts, just like Halladay and Price.

 

He's not that seriously hurt, I don't think, but could definitely be something nagging that he can't adjust to. Things to watch for, fewer sliders, curves thrown or more flat versions of each (elbow trouble) down velocity, lack of control, lower arm slot (shoulder issue). While the second one COULD fit, I'd have to see more to know. When I was scouting Erbe in AA after the first start (15 starts before he got shut down) I asked the shoulder question in the pressbox and half the staff jumped on me and said I couldn't ask anyone about that. I ended up being right. Things only players would know, you know?

[You Play to Win the Game]

He's not that seriously hurt, I don't think, but could definitely be something nagging that he can't adjust to. Things to watch for, fewer sliders, curves thrown or more flat versions of each (elbow trouble) down velocity, lack of control, lower arm slot (shoulder issue). While the second one COULD fit, I'd have to see more to know. When I was scouting Erbe in AA after the first start (15 starts before he got shut down) I asked the shoulder question in the pressbox and half the staff jumped on me and said I couldn't ask anyone about that. I ended up being right. Things only players would know, you know?

 

Palmer did mention he's been having forearm tightness.

[JeremyStrain]

Forearm tightness is usually a symptom of a bigger problem. Shoulder pain radiates down all through the arm, so when they don't want to admit a shoulder issue, teams will say there is pain in the forearm or biceps or triceps, so they aren't actually LYING, it's just not the overarching problem.

 

Then again, forearm tightness will lead to different release points, because it hurts to finish you pitches, and you almost short arm it a little bit. Thing is, you'd notice someone doing that, so you have to know how to play the game of teams/media talking about injuries and seeing the symptoms that would result from that type of injury.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Forearm tightness is usually a symptom of a bigger problem. Shoulder pain radiates down all through the arm, so when they don't want to admit a shoulder issue, teams will say there is pain in the forearm or biceps or triceps, so they aren't actually LYING, it's just not the overarching problem.

 

Then again, forearm tightness will lead to different release points, because it hurts to finish you pitches, and you almost short arm it a little bit. Thing is, you'd notice someone doing that, so you have to know how to play the game of teams/media talking about injuries and seeing the symptoms that would result from that type of injury.

 

Good insight, Jeremy... thanks. This is definitely something to keep an eye on.

[SportsGuy]

http://www.masnsport..._medium=twitter

Lots of generic quotes.

[JeremyStrain]

Good insight, Jeremy... thanks. This is definitely something to keep an eye on.

 

No prob. Just part of the fun of going to a game with me. It drives my wife crazy cause I'll talk about this stuff and she usually responds with something like, well that one looks really cute in his pants. It's a little frustrating some days.

[Roll Tide]

I think his injury had a positive effect on his mechanics. What ever he had to change to pitch with the pain has now reverted back to the old Hammel and his mechanics.

[PrimeTime]

I'm going to preface my post by saying this an anecdotal observation but I think it could have some merit.

 

If you read or heard any of Hammel's quotes, he's talking about trying to do too much. That to me is the dreaded "trying too hard", which is a killer in almost any athletic endeavor. For a pitcher, the subconcious affect of trying too hard can manifest itself physically by flat out squeezing the baseball too tight. I would imagine the squeezing the ball too tight can impact command. Based on watching Hammel's starts, you can see him regularly missing his spots; particularly with his fastball. 

 

It's really easy to tell a player to "not try too hard" and "relax" but executing that is another story. Especially when you're in a performance rut, there's that quicksand effect. You keep trying to get out of the funk but the harder you try, the deeper you get stuck in the quagmire.

 

Now, how does Hammel get "fixed"? That's another story. Perhaps there's a mental key that Hammel can go to but that's something that him and Adair will have to work on. Hopefully, Hammel is much closer than the numbers and performance so far suggest.

[PD24]

Hammel just isn't that good of a pitcher. Never was. He had one great year when everything clicked. It's called a career  year. Thank goodness the O's didn't extend him. Should have traded him.

[Mackus]

Hammel just isn't that good of a pitcher. Never was. He had one great year when everything clicked. It's called a career  year. Thank goodness the O's didn't extend him. Should have traded him.

 

I think this is becoming more and more likely the case.  I've said for a little while now that the question shouldn't be "what's wrong with him this year" but instead it should be "what went right with him last year".

 

I'll be really surprised if he fully rights the ship and pitches like he did last year.  I do think he'll improve, just not to that top end #2 type performance he gave us last year.  I think he'll be just another one of our #3/4 type starters.

[PD24]

I think this is becoming more and more likely the case.  I've said for a little while now that the question shouldn't be "what's wrong with him this year" but instead it should be "what went right with him last year".

 

I'll be really surprised if he fully rights the ship and pitches like he did last year.  I do think he'll improve, just not to that top end #2 type performance he gave us last year.  I think he'll be just another one of our #3/4 type starters.

 

Yep. I think the biggest debate question should be, did they screw up big time by not trading him? Now, I don't mean using hindsight...because looking back now, yeah, they did. But in the offseason, the only real benefit you had by keeping him was if he had a duplicate year to last year, and if that happened, then you'd have to commit big time money to him, which we don't know A) if they would have done, or B) if it would have been a good investment.

 

If he regresses, not only do you not re-sign him, but he loses all trade value too.

 

I think he should have been dealt. Easy to say now, but this is the kind of thinking that the team often doesn't think about until it's after the fact. There is such a thing as relative value in baseball. The O's never, ever take advantage of players at the right times. 

 

Basically, they trade/get rid of players at their lowest value, and extend players at their highest value.

[Mackus]

We needed more pitching, not less.  Retroactively criticizing them for not trading Hammel at his peak value is 100% hindsight talking.  Nobody was suggesting to trade him in the offseason, nor should they have been.  Trading players at their peak value is a good theory and all, but there was no real chance that Hammel was going to be dealt away last offseason.

 

I think we should've brought in another SP because there was a decent chance that Hammel regressed or, more likely IMO, would get hurt.  Same for Chen, and everyone else we had penciled in for the rotation.

[JeremyStrain]

It's not that he regressed or even had a career year. He had a new, really good plus pitch last year that led to the better season. This year that pitch wasn't being called as much early, and looks different than it did last year. No way anyone could have predicted that so the question is why isn't it the same?

[You Play to Win the Game]

It's not that he regressed or even had a career year. He had a new, really good plus pitch last year that led to the better season. This year that pitch wasn't being called as much early, and looks different than it did last year. No way anyone could have predicted that so the question is why isn't it the same?

 

Agreed. It seems most are completely disregarding his 2-seam/sinker last year in their analysis. I don't get it.

[JeremyStrain]

Agreed. It seems most are completely disregarding his 2-seam/sinker last year in their analysis. I don't get it.

 

I mean, right now he's basically the guy he was before we got him when many of us (me included) were very much against the trade. With the new weapon last year, he was a totally different pitcher. But that goes to illustrate just what things really are when you talk about having a plus pitch or average pitch. The difference between a 4.25 era pitcher and a 3.25 era pitcher is having that plus pitch instead of an average pitch (of course depending on what the other 2 pitches you have are).

 

I mean it's still there, he's been throwing it more the past 3 starts, but like we talked about in that WC start, it's not the same as it was. It's different, and this way is more inconsistent. His other pitches are hit or miss, when his curve is on, he can be really good, but his CV is sharp one out of 3 or 4 starts.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Hammel was strong the last time out, going 8 innings, allowing 8 hits, 2 er, 0 bb's, with 8 k's.

 

His stuff looked better than it had all year. Interested to see if he follows that up today.

[bnickle]

Hammel just hurt his team with his actions today. Not only the poor pitching but hitting the batter and getting ejected. He's got to sackup and give Buck another inning or two. He was only at 60 some pitches. Mental miget today as he bailed out. He just wanted to go get his ball and run home today.

[DJ MC]

Hammel just hurt his team with his actions today. Not only the poor pitching but hitting the batter and getting ejected. He's got to sackup and give Buck another inning or two. He was only at 60 some pitches. Mental miget today as he bailed out. He just wanted to go get his ball and run home today.

Considering he threw more balls than strikes today, are we so sure he threw at the guy, even subconsciously?

[BSLChrisStoner]

ESPN Sweetspot: 10 Key Guys in the AL East
http://espn.go.com/b...-in-the-al-east

 

Jason Hammel, Orioles
Look, the Orioles can't expect to keep running Freddy Garcia and Jake Arrieta out there and expect to win the division. They'll get Wei-Yin Chen back soon, but they're desperate for Hammel to replicate his 2012 performance. Last season, Hammel was getting great sinking movement on his fastball, off which batters hit .252/.318/.378; this season, he's leaving it up too often, and hitters are pounding it for a .309/.377/.510. Last year was a career season for Hammel, so the Orioles might have to decide on banking on his improvement or look to supplement the rotation via trade.