153 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

Interesting to me on a personal level that the two guys getting the crazy huge deals recently are Donald and Mack.

And Rodgers

[SportsGuy]

Interesting to me on a personal level that the two guys getting the crazy huge deals recently are Donald and Mack.

It’s not a coincidence that both of those teams have QBs on rookie contracts.

[bnickle]

And they didn’t have to give him a record setting deal..deals where teams give guys and then rarely (if ever)!win SB.

Oakland did great here. I find it funny how many National people are slamming them for this deal. The art of building a team is lost on so many people.

Exactly. Its not just the draft picks which are a steep price anyway. Its paying the salary and cap inplications that come along with it. Whats interesting is this direction that teams with young QBs are taking while the Qbs are on their rookie deal. Really going for it before you have to pay up for the QB. Its the right move, but it puts a lot of pressure on that young QB. Compare that to 15-20+ years ago when teams would sit rookie QBs consistently and then expect a few more years of growing pains while they learned on the job.

[SportsGuy]

Exactly. Its not just the draft picks which are a seep price anyway. Its paying the salary and cap inplications that cone along with it. Whats interesting is this direction that teams with young QBs are taking while the Qb is on their rookie deal. Really going for it before you have to pay up for the QB. Its the right move, but it puts a lot of pressure on that young QB. Conpare that to 15-20+ years ago when teams would sit rookie QBs consistently and then expect a few more years of growing pains while he learned on the job

All I keep thinking is will the Ravens do the same if LJ develops into their starter?  Its tempting.

 

But I was listening to a conversation the other day and they were discussing the OBJ deal.  They said that besides Jerry Rice, no NFL team has won a SB with an elite level WR.  They weren't really saying which era they were discussing and Im not enough of a football historian to know if that is true going all the way back but it is interesting.

 

You see the teams the Ravens won with....you build with the lines.  That is still how football games are won.  But even then, paying a guy like Donald or Mack this type of money...can you win like that?

[mweb08]

Of course elite can be debated, but the '16 Broncos (Thomas), '11 Giants (Cruz), and '06 Colts (Harrison, Wayne) had receivers with at least 1,300 yards in the season they won.

People might scoff at Cruz because he wasn't a star for long and came out of nowhere, but he had over 1,500 yards receiving that year.

I don't think many would dismiss the Colts' receivers, though.

Going back further, guys like Isaac Bruce, Rod Smith, Michael Irving, and Gary Clark can be discussed.

[mweb08]

I think the Bears are banking on Trubisky being good starting now. If he is, this deal makes a fair amount of sense as they can become a playoff team and those picks won't be as valuable. Plus there's short- term disaster potential with the Raiders, meaning there may not be a big gap between the first and second round picks in 2020.

[bnickle]

Of course elite can be debated, but the '16 Broncos (Thomas), '11 Giants (Cruz), and '06 Colts (Harrison, Wayne) had receivers with at least 1,300 yards in the season they won.

People might scoff at Cruz because he wasn't a star for long and came out of nowhere, but he had over 1,500 yards receiving that year.

I don't think many would dismiss the Colts' receivers, though.

Going back further, guys like Isaac Bruce, Rod Smith, Michael Irving, and Gary Clark can be discussed.

Its a really bad argument. In addition to the ones who did win. Julio Jones didnt blow the big lead to the Pats 2 years ago. It wasnt Larry Fitzgeralds fault Santonio Holmes got his tippy toes down. Nor did Randy Moss have anything to do with the luckiest play in SB history.

[SportsGuy]

Of course elite can be debated, but the '16 Broncos (Thomas), '11 Giants (Cruz), and '06 Colts (Harrison, Wayne) had receivers with at least 1,300 yards in the season they won.

People might scoff at Cruz because he wasn't a star for long and came out of nowhere, but he had over 1,500 yards receiving that year.

I don't think many would dismiss the Colts' receivers, though.

Going back further, guys like Isaac Bruce, Rod Smith, Michael Irving, and Gary Clark can be discussed.

I also got the impression that they were talking about guys taking huge chunks of the salary cap.

[SportsGuy]

Its a really bad argument. In addition to the ones who did win. Julio Jones didnt blow the big lead to the Pats 2 years ago. It wasnt Larry Fitzgeralds fault Santonio Holmes got his tippy toes down. Nor did Randy Moss have anything to do with the luckiest play in SB history.

It’s no different than putting X player on a pedestal because they have rings but got lucky winning some of the rings (see Brady).

[OldSchool]

I think the Bears are banking on Trubisky being good starting now. If he is, this deal makes a fair amount of sense as they can become a playoff team and those picks won't be as valuable. Plus there's short- term disaster potential with the Raiders, meaning there may not be a big gap between the first and second round picks in 2020.

IMO Chucky is an overrated coach.

[mdrunning]

It probably makes sense for someone besides the Raiders to shell out a huge contract for Mack. The Bears have that luxury because, as pointed out, they have Trubisky on a rookie deal. Conversely, Derek Carr already got paid by the Raiders, so it probably isn't a good idea to have two players taking up that much of a team's cap (I haven't seen a breakdown of Mack's Chicago contract).

 

Mack simply priced himself out of Oakland, much the way Le'Veon Bell seems destined to do in Pittsburgh.

[CantonJester]

All I keep thinking is will the Ravens do the same if LJ develops into their starter?  Its tempting.

 

But I was listening to a conversation the other day and they were discussing the OBJ deal.  They said that besides Jerry Rice, no NFL team has won a SB with an elite level WR.  They weren't really saying which era they were discussing and Im not enough of a football historian to know if that is true going all the way back but it is interesting.

 

You see the teams the Ravens won with....you build with the lines.  That is still how football games are won.  But even then, paying a guy like Donald or Mack this type of money...can you win like that?

 

Eh. I can poke holes in that so long as the argument isn't about "who else is on Jerry Rice's level." Let's keep it to elite in that given era.

 

99 Isaac Bruce 

95 Michael Irvin

06 Marvin Harrison (apologies to Reggie Wayne)

97-98 Rod Smith

 

You could include '10 Randy Moss if not for David Tyree, too. 

[MDtransplant757]

CantonJester, on 02 Sept 2018 - 20:29, said:
Eh. I can poke holes in that so long as the argument isn't about "who else is on Jerry Rice's level." Let's keep it to elite in that given era.

99 Isaac Bruce
95 Michael Irvin
06 Marvin Harrison (apologies to Reggie Wayne)
97-98 Rod Smith

You could include '10 Randy Moss if not for David Tyree, too.

2007 Randy Moss. That whole team for NE was in God mode, almost as if the Patriots were playing Madden IRL.


Anyway, I like the trade from the Bears perspective unless Trubitski turns into Jay Culter or Sexy Rexy. The offense looks great, and the D looks great. Problem will be the secondary.

From the Raiders prespective, whoever is calling the shots got the best deal they could. The main problem with Oakland is defense, which was Mack, some silly putty, a few sandbags, duct tape and wacky glue. Why they paid the everliving hell out of Derek Carr amazes me. Dude is the west coast's answer to Andy Dalton. Carr got the Raiders to the playoffs one time, and then got hurt. He's yet to replecate the magic of 2015. That and Gruden is sending this team back to 2000 with how the roster is going to be managed and bringing in "his guys" who are "tough, play hard and will make things happen". It doesn't look like the GM will balance that out, so it's essentially football's version of Buck Showalter running things without a DD or Andy MacPhail to keep him in check.

[BSLChrisStoner]

The Ringer: The Khalil Mack Trade Single-handedly Swung the NFC North

[BSLChrisStoner]

SI: The Bears' NFL-Best Defense Will Take a Step Back in 2019

[BSLChrisStoner]

The Ringer: The NFL Is Back, and We’re Already Sick of Watching Mitchell Trubisky

 

 

What a ridiculous article. 

Guy made huge strides from Y1 to Y2... now after Week 1 of  Y3 he's, " is showing an alarming lack of development for a quarterback entering his third year."

[You Play to Win the Game]

Not enough credit given to the GB defense who made life very difficult for Chicago last night.

[DJ MC]

The Ringer: The NFL Is Back, and We’re Already Sick of Watching Mitchell Trubisky

 

 

What a ridiculous article. 

Guy made huge strides from Y1 to Y2... now after Week 1 of  Y3 he's, " is showing an alarming lack of development for a quarterback entering his third year."

 

https://twitter.com/...833117286195202

 

We wanted to make Mitch play quarterback. We knew they had a lot of weapons, we knew they were dangerous, we knew all of those things. But we knew if we could make Mitch play quarterback, that we’d have a chance.

[BSLChrisStoner]

https://twitter.com/...833117286195202

Yes, that's what you'd want to do against a still relatively inexperienced guy with vulnerabilities. 

That makes sense

Saying he's shown an alarming lack of development after the gains he made in Y2, and using last night to illustrate that point is just silly. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

The Ringer: The Bears Are Finally Addressing the Mitchell Trubisky Problem