648 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

Do I seem frustrated? I think he raped someone and am hoping that no baseball team signs him because of that. I realize there isn't enough corroborating evidence for a courtroom conviction, but I've read enough of the story to think the accusations credible. I'm not really in the "second chances for rapists" camp.

[russsnyder]

And your insistence upon being acknowledged as a knuckle-dragging troglodyte (no offense intended to our paleo-ancestors) is noted.

Harvey was caught up in one of the many drug cultures in MLB clubhouses. He also was in the chain of custody of a drug that was in Skaggs’ system. Bauer is a sadomasochist that prefers rough sex with incapacitated women.

You’ve riled up the townsfolk with your #hottakes bro. Checkmate, next topic.

Oh, that hurts coming from the fool on the board. (Your moniker is the equivalent of fool.) Yeah, Harvey is a great guy who got caught up in some bad stuff. (One might say that he running with the wrong crowd. Poor lad!) I'm sure the the Skaggs family looks on him in a very favorable light.

Keep up the excuses for him.

Thanks for the tip of the cap.

It was an easy W.

Piece of cake.

[Mackus]

I don't think saying that what Bauer did is worse is necessarily defending Harvey or letting him off the hook.

I didn't follow the trial closely but didn't think that Harvey hooked Skaggs or gave him the dose than ended up being lethal, did he? I thought he was more of just a running buddy and he got fortunate to not be around the night Skaggs OD'd on the tainted batch? Not absolving Harvey or anything, but that seems less heinous to me than the Brock Turner nature of Bauer's actions. Actually even if he did give Skaggs the tainted dose, unless he knew it was spiked it's still less awful than Bauer. That's different than saying it's ok.

[russsnyder]

I don't think saying that what Bauer did is worse is necessarily defending Harvey or letting him off the hook.

I didn't follow the trial closely but didn't think that Harvey hooked Skaggs or gave him the dose than ended up being lethal, did he? I thought he was more of just a running buddy and he got fortunate to not be around the night Skaggs OD'd on the tainted batch? Not absolving Harvey or anything, but that seems less heinous to me than the Brock Turner nature of Bauer's actions. Actually even if he did give Skaggs the tainted dose, unless he knew it was spiked it's still less awful than Bauer. That's different than saying it's ok.

First off, my apology for the "safe space" remark. It was disrespectful,and while we have disagreed on things in the past,I do respect you and your views.

I never got the feeling that you were defending Harvey or his actions. I also get that you think what Bauer did was heinous.(And I did pretty much say that both Harvey and Bauer deserved their respective suspensions.)

I didn't follow the trial that closely either. From what I recall from an article in the Athletic, the team official who was on trial sold Skaggs the lethal dose. I believe that the investigation turned up the fact that several Angels players including Harvey and Skaggs were getting drugs from the official. I think Harvey got immunity for his testimony because he had sold/given some drugs to Skaggs earlier in the season. It's really a heartbreaking story. The MLBPA should use this tragedy to loosen restrictions on THC use by players. Baseball is a grind and these guys play through a lot of nagging injuries.

[dude]

Not interested in the Harvey v Bauer debate.  I would add a couple points though...

 

1) Bauer's actions, criminally prosecuted or not, are symptomatic of the larger reasons I never wanted him before "this stuff" came to light.  He has some flaws and a team like the DBacks gave him away rather than deal with the eventual bomb going off.  When you see stuff on the surface, it's likely an iceberg.  It's so bad, that MLB Radio (was somehow convinced to) give him his own Radio Show at one point to work on image rehab.  He's poison for your Organization and nothing he can do on the field is worth the downside risk.  When you give him a platform ,you have to have accountability for what he does when he's on it.  Dodgers are paying a lot of money to try and separate from it.  When people are telling you who they are, listen.

 

2) Rachel Luba.  Could there ever be a worse launch for a female sports sports agent (ok, forget female...any sports agent).  Her TWO clients, and as far as I can tell, her only clients, are Bauer and Puig.  Puig is tied up in his own legal trouble in some Federal gambling deal.. He pleaded guilty, then he didn't, whatever.  But your Luba Sports launch, where you are going to be this edgy, social media savvy Agency has 2 clients that aren't getting paid and embroiled in long-term legal challenges with little hope of doing a job they get paid for.  Can't make this stuff up.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I didn't follow the trial that closely either. From what I recall from an article in the Athletic, the team official who was on trial sold Skaggs the lethal dose. I believe that the investigation turned up the fact that several Angels players including Harvey and Skaggs were getting drugs from the official. I think Harvey got immunity for his testimony because he had sold/given some drugs to Skaggs earlier in the season. It's really a heartbreaking story. The MLBPA should use this tragedy to loosen restrictions on THC use by players. Baseball is a grind and these guys play through a lot of nagging injuries.

 

That's most of the details. Even though it was a federal case, the prosecution had to prove that not only was Kay (the Comm Dept guy) the one who gave Skaggs the drugs that killed him, but that he gave it to him in Texas....which apparently they did since they got a conviction. Harvey had an alibi for that specific charge, since he did not travel with the team to Texas on that trip.

 

Still, to me, with his admission that he distributed opioids to his teammates, Harvey crossed a line that doesn't give you a second chance. And that the Orioles did is unconscionable to me. That they were okay with him sharing a clubhouse with many of their top prospects for the season is reckless.

 

As for Bauer, he crossed the same line from which you don't come back as far as I'm concerned. And yet as far as the Orioles are concerned, with Harvey as a barometer, I can't help but wonder if they are giving it a passing thought.....if they are willing to give a chance to a guy with such baggage who isn't even an AAAA pitcher anymore, what must they be thinking of a guy who is two seasons removed from a Cy Young who they could get for one season at league minimum?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Pretty sure there was more smoke with Bauer. Think I read where MLB talked to other women in Ohio who chose to never pursue anything criminally. He is a special POS

[russsnyder]

That's most of the details. Even though it was a federal case, the prosecution had to prove that not only was Kay (the Comm Dept guy) the one who gave Skaggs the drugs that killed him, but that he gave it to him in Texas....which apparently they did since they got a conviction. Harvey had an alibi for that specific charge, since he did not travel with the team to Texas on that trip.

Still, to me, with his admission that he distributed opioids to his teammates, Harvey crossed a line that doesn't give you a second chance. And that the Orioles did is unconscionable to me. That they were okay with him sharing a clubhouse with many of their top prospects for the season is reckless.

As for Bauer, he crossed the same line from which you don't come back as far as I'm concerned. And yet as far as the Orioles are concerned, with Harvey as a barometer, I can't help but wonder if they are giving it a passing thought.....if they are willing to give a chance to a guy with such baggage who isn't even an AAAA pitcher anymore, what must they be thinking of a guy who is two seasons removed from a Cy Young who they could get for one season at league minimum?

The one factor that bears mentioning is that the Orioles had a past relationship with both Harvey and his younger brother.

He was a cheap veteran arm that they could stash at Norfolk despite the mess in Anaheim.

You make a good point that the Orioles could justify signing Bauer for 720k after their dalliance with Harvey last season. Further, Elias was part of the Astros FO when they made the controversial decision to sign Osuna after Toronto released him because of his assault on his girlfriend.

Like I said, I doubt Bauer gsts signed, but I guess stranger things have happened.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I’ll never understand the “well he was never found guilty so he’s ok with me” mantra. It’s completely tone deaf.

[dude]

The one factor that bears mentioning is that the Orioles had a past relationship with both Harvey and his younger brother.

He was a cheap veteran arm that they could stash at Norfolk despite the mess in Anaheim.

You make a good point that the Orioles could justify signing Bauer for 720k after their dalliance with Harvey last season. Further, Elias was part of the Astros FO when they made the controversial decision to sign Osuna after Toronto released him because of his assault on his girlfriend.

Like I said, I doubt Bauer gsts signed, but I guess stranger things have happened.

 

I think we're missing some facts in here.

 

When the Orioles signed Harvey (and he pitched for them), the LAA stuff wasn't known.  Then those stories, prosecution, etc hit.  The Orioles, by signing him, allowed his suspension to be completed.  Without signing with a team, he can't serve his suspension.  Regardless of why they did that to/for him, he pitched 13 games off the suspension in the minors and they've been done with him.

 

Osuna served his suspension in Toronto and was traded to the Astros for Ken Giles (not released because of charges/etc).  While there's been some notable controversy with the idiot drunk Astros FO guy and the ridiculous female 'reporter' they allowed in the clubhouse, I don't think you have much around Osuna at all. 

 

The Orioles are not considering signing Bauer.  Nobody is. 

[russsnyder]

I think we're missing some facts in here.

When the Orioles signed Harvey (and he pitched for them), the LAA stuff wasn't known. Then those stories, prosecution, etc hit. The Orioles, by signing him, allowed his suspension to be completed. Without signing with a team, he can't serve his suspension. Regardless of why they did that to/for him, he pitched 13 games off the suspension in the minors and they've been done with him.

Osuna served his suspension in Toronto and was traded to the Astros for Ken Giles (not released because of charges/etc). While there's been some notable controversy with the idiot drunk Astros FO guy and the ridiculous female 'reporter' they allowed in the clubhouse, I don't think you have much around Osuna at all.

The Orioles are not considering signing Bauer. Nobody is.

Here's some "facts" regarding Harvey according to an ESPN article and baseball reference:

Harvey gave testimony in the Kay trial on February 22, 2022.

He signed a minor league deal with the Orioles on April 8, 2022 and was suspended for 60 games for selling oxy on May 22, 2022.

It's impossible that the Orioles did not know about his involvement in the Angels mess given this timeline. Not only did they sign him, they kept him around through the suspension.

I stand corrected regarding the Osuna situation. However, the Astros did trade for him after he was arrested for domestic abuse. The female reporter in question would tweet Houston's domestic abuse hotline every time Osuna entered a game. This was the reason why the FO guy got loud with the reporter during the Astros division or LCS celebration.

I doubt Bauer gets signed right away, but I think someone will take the plunge at some point IMO. He has too good a record on the field and he's ridiculously cheap. I wouldn't be shocked if its the Orioles. We'll see.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Here's some "facts" regarding Harvey according to an ESPN article and baseball reference:

Harvey gave testimony in the Kay trial on February 22, 2022.

He signed a minor league deal with the Orioles on April 8, 2022 and was suspended for 60 games for selling oxy on May 22, 2022.

It's impossible that the Orioles did not know about his involvement in the Angels mess given this timeline. Not only did they sign him, they kept him around through the suspension.

I stand corrected regarding the Osuna situation. However, the Astros did trade for him after he was arrested for domestic abuse. The female reporter in question would tweet Houston's domestic abuse hotline every time Osuna entered a game. This was the reason why the FO guy got loud with the reporter during the Astros division or LCS celebration.

I doubt Bauer gets signed right away, but I think someone will take the plunge at some point IMO. He's just got too good a record on the field and he's ridiculously cheap. I wouldn't be shocked if its the Orioles. We'll see.

 

I think dude was initially referring to when Harvey pitched for the Orioles in 2021, and I assume at that time the Orioles weren't any more aware of his legal situation and what he would eventually testify to than the rest of the public was.

 

But none of that excuses them bringing him back in 2022. I don't care that most of time he was with the organization he was serving a suspension, or that he never pitched in Baltimore. He pitched for them in Norfolk for several months, and was around their players on a daily basis. I don't see how anyone can be comfortable with that.

[russsnyder]

I think dude was initially referring to when Harvey pitched for the Orioles in 2021, and I assume at that time the Orioles weren't any more aware of his legal situation and what he would eventually testify to than the rest of the public was.

But none of that excuses them bringing him back in 2022. I don't care that most of time he was with the organization he was serving a suspension, or that he never pitched in Baltimore. He pitched for them in Norfolk for several months, and was around their players on a daily basis. I don't see how anyone can be comfortable with that.

I think you are correct about dude.
de confusing 2021 with 2022. The Orioles wanted to stash Harvey at Norfolk. IMO, tjey did him a solid by not releasing him when he was suspended. He was able to serve his suspension in the minors instead of serving it whenever he reached the majors.

[dude]

I think dude was initially referring to when Harvey pitched for the Orioles in 2021, and I assume at that time the Orioles weren't any more aware of his legal situation and what he would eventually testify to than the rest of the public was.

 

Correct.

 

But none of that excuses them bringing him back in 2022. I don't care that most of time he was with the organization he was serving a suspension, or that he never pitched in Baltimore. He pitched for them in Norfolk for several months, and was around their players on a daily basis. I don't see how anyone can be comfortable with that.

 

While I don't know the specifics of the answer, they don't own a lack of information (or a comfort level) about him when the information comes out in 2022.  While I agree they probably wouldn't go there without 2021 in the books, 2021 was in the books, so they have an assessment from as close as you can be.  The information comes out, and they (likely) query the coaches, players, attendants, staff, everyone - talk to him (get his side, blood tests, whatever) but they are making an assessment with more info than any other team, because of 2021.

 

Personally, I think they had some relationship (2021) and just did him a solid.  He needs to be on a team to serve the suspension, otherwise he never gets to serve the suspension.  He got to work out, he gets a little bump (ok, poor word choice there) from starting some MiL games and if that's it, at least he moves into retirement from the mound, not with the suspension permanently there.

[CantonJester]

Oh, that hurts coming from the fool on the board. (Your moniker is the equivalent of fool.) Yeah, Harvey is a great guy who got caught up in some bad stuff. (One might say that he running with the wrong crowd. Poor lad!) I'm sure the the Skaggs family looks on him in a very favorable light.

Keep up the excuses for him.

Thanks for the tip of the cap.

It was an easy W.

Piece of cake.

 

 

That's not an honest argument. But it does smack of someone who wants to edge-lord to gain points with the MAGA crowd. 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[CantonJester]

I think we're missing some facts in here.

 

When the Orioles signed Harvey (and he pitched for them), the LAA stuff wasn't known.  Then those stories, prosecution, etc hit.  The Orioles, by signing him, allowed his suspension to be completed.  Without signing with a team, he can't serve his suspension.  Regardless of why they did that to/for him, he pitched 13 games off the suspension in the minors and they've been done with him.

 

Osuna served his suspension in Toronto and was traded to the Astros for Ken Giles (not released because of charges/etc).  While there's been some notable controversy with the idiot drunk Astros FO guy and the ridiculous female 'reporter' they allowed in the clubhouse, I don't think you have much around Osuna at all. 

 

The Orioles are not considering signing Bauer.  Nobody is. 

 

Short of Trevor's mea culpa (and demonstrated life change), I agree.

[russsnyder]

That's not an honest argument. But it does smack of someone who wants to edge-lord to gain points with the MAGA crowd.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nice try on bringing politics or a political slant into a baseball discussion. Bravo sir!

My response is what you should have expected from a Hall of Fame poster around these parts my good man!

Take notes, and perhaps you'll make the grade one day!


Take it easy and keep reaching for the stars brah!

[dude]

The Orioles wanted to stash Harvey at Norfolk. IMO, tjey did him a solid by not releasing him when he was suspended. He was able to serve his suspension in the minors instead of serving it whenever he reached the majors.

 

Just to complete these timelines, Harvey's testimony (and likely suspension) in Feb was certainly known by the Orioles when they signed hm in April 2022.  They had to already weigh the consequence of that testimony when they signed him and if they thought there was something concerning there (based on their 2021 experience). They don't have to release him, they just simply never sign him.  They had to be able to consult with the League office and some indicators of consequence.

[BSLChrisStoner]

• Dodgers' Lux exits game on cart with knee injury

[Mackus]

• Dodgers' Lux exits game on cart with knee injury

 

Torn ACL, out for the year.  Dagger.