114 replies to this topic

[makoman]

IDK if he has multiple sources or not.  Haven't spoken to him.   

 

Someone saying he is Ben on reddit said it was only one source, the source is well connected with the team and he trusts them, he reached out to others with the team he knows personally and no one would confirm or deny, and given the way the FO operates it was difficult to imagine anyone else talking. Also said he’s vocally trusted Elias so it was not an article he wanted to write. For whatever all that’s worth.

 

I will stand by: probably a mix of some factual things and some slanted opinions from the source.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'm not buying all of that. I do think something is wrong here. Scouting and developing amateurs and relying on analytics is a much different, although a vitally important skillset than rounding out a contending big league roster.

 

I do think ego is at play. I do think he would rather win a title with almost exclusively home grown talent and at a discount of the cost than winning one with a higher payroll. So much so that he's OK not winning one and "letting the chips fall where they may". I have a problem with such a stoic approach to a game which is designed for you to try and win.

 

He's putting quite a literal meaning on the "process over results" moniker. IE: literally - process, as opposed to results. Maybe they will still win it all this way, but I have a real problem with not taking the "leave no stone unturned" approach. Competitive fire can lead to some longer term poor decisions, no doubt about that. But not going for it can and has led to some less than ideal results in the present. Just like everything, a healthy balance is the way.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ben will be back writing for us next month.

No thanks. Completely unprofessional. He has one "source" with an ax to grind. Laughable article

[BSLMikeLowe]

Someone saying he is Ben on reddit said it was only one source, the source is well connected with the team and he trusts them, he reached out to others with the team he knows personally and no one would confirm or deny, and given the way the FO operates it was difficult to imagine anyone else talking. Also said he’s vocally trusted Elias so it was not an article he wanted to write. For whatever all that’s worth.

 

I will stand by: probably a mix of some factual things and some slanted opinions from the source.

 

Important word there, IMO. The source "is" well connected vs "was" well connected matters.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I do think ego is at play. I do think he would rather win a title with almost exclusively home grown talent and at a discount of the cost than winning one with a higher payroll. So much so that he's OK not winning one and "letting the chips fall where they may". I have a problem with such a stoic approach to a game which is designed for you to try and win.

 

While I think "vanity project" was a provocative choice of words, I mostly agree. He came in with a plan, that plan may be somewhat different than others (particularly this source) might have done in his position. He's sticking to that plan, even as he has a new boss who has given every indication he's willing to spend more than the old boss. The dodging accountability part I think is BS. I've never got a vibe that he isn't willing to be held accountable for the results.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Btw all Rubenstein has to do is give him the money he s owed and fire him. Its not like the guy is at the top of the food chain. The picture being painted is laughable. Like the Os are still doomed. That literally reads like Trea or dude wrote it.

[You Play to Win the Game]

While I think "vanity project" was a provocative choice of words, I mostly agree. He came in with a plan, that plan may be somewhat different than others (particularly this source) might have done in his position. He's sticking to that plan, even as he has a new boss who has given every indication he's willing to spend more than the old boss. The dodging accountability part I think is BS. I've never got a vibe that he isn't willing to be held accountable for the results.

I agree with all this. Nice recap of this all, IMO. 

 

The thing that gets me, is not only has Rubenstein hinted at spending more, he specifically talked about his age and not having much time left and wanting to speed this up. He also has talked about this being his "last act of charity" (and then raised ticket prices and removed benefits to season ticket holders, but I digress). If this is true, there seems to be a clear disconnect here.

 

But beyond the here and now of new ownership, the previous trade deadlines were just God awful as well. 

 

This is a game. There's a champion crowned at the end of the season. Show some damn fire. 

[BaltBird 24]

2023 deadline was bad. That team had everything going for it and all we ended up with was Jack Flaherty. The package Elias gave up was a bunch of nothing.

He gave up a fairly covered player in Ortiz and another high ranked prospect for a rental in Burnes.

At the deadline, he took on a fairly significant amount of money and gave up quite a bit of capital in the Eflin, Soto, Rogers trades.

This offseason he committed a decent bit for O'Neill and Sanchez.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Its also only Dec 12. Weve spent 50+ mil in FA. How many of the non elite spenders have much spent more.

[BSLChrisStoner]

No thanks. Completely unprofessional. He has one "source" with an ax to grind. Laughable article

He's a good guy, quality writer.  

 

He's done good stuff for us previously, and I'm sure he will again. 

I've sent him a message, linking to the discussion here... asked him to add any thoughts he has.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

A source who describes Elias's approach to running the Orioles as a "vanity project" is probably someone we all should take very seriously.

This type of nonsense makes it difficult to make actually criticisms of Elias and the O's since people lump in legit complaints with garbage like this.

Nail. Head.

And listen Im not an Elias shill anymore. There are legit issues to wonder about. Hate that he didnt fire Hyde for starters. But this is amatuer hour "journalism".

[jamesdean]

I'd like to know who the "source" is.  Until that happens, I'll just assume most, if not all of this, is a product of someone's imagination and biases. Laughable, really. 

[makoman]

I agree with all this. Nice recap of this all, IMO. 

 

The thing that gets me, is not only has Rubenstein hinted at spending more, he specifically talked about his age and not having much time left and wanting to speed this up. He also has talked about this being his "last act of charity" (and then raised ticket prices and removed benefits to season ticket holders, but I digress). If this is true, there seems to be a clear disconnect here.

 

But beyond the here and now of new ownership, the previous trade deadlines were just God awful as well. 

 

This is a game. There's a champion crowned at the end of the season. Show some damn fire. 

He seems averse to cashing in his assets, and then does it too late when his hand gets forced. Ortiz seems like the only guy traded at a high point. Hall, Hays, Stowers, and Norby, I have to believe all had significantly more value at some point before they were traded. Get out in front while they still have value instead of stockpiling a ton of utility infielders you can't option. And here once again we're looking at Mayo and Kjerstad maybe not having any place to play...I guess that's how we get the 2025 deadline version of Flaherty/Rogers? 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Nail. Head.

And listen Im not an Elias shill anymore. There are legit issues to wonder about. Hate that he didnt fire Hyde for starters. But this is amatuer hour "journalism".

 

 

I'd like to know who the "source" is.  Until that happens, I'll just assume most, if not all of this, is a product of someone's imagination and biases. Laughable, really. 

 

You can disagree with the conclusions. (I do.)

You can state that one source (if it was just one source) isn't enough. 

 

But I'm telling you Ben is a good guy, and a good writer...  and I'd ask anyone to give that some weight prior to burying Ben. 


Also, unnamed sources are perfectly legitimate. 
If people only spoke on the record, you'd never hear anything. 

[NewMarketSean]

Don't necessarily believe what the article says is happening is happening, but I do think there could be some aspect to truth in it. Elias has bombed out on deadline deals and apparently values prospects and financial cost. Not surprised Rubenstein in his first offseason as owner wants to make some splashy moves and Elias is pushing back on it.

[mdrunning]

Back in the day, they used to call a one-source story "gossip."

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Back in the day, they used to call a one-source story "gossip."

Journalism in the age of twitter baby. Be first and sensationalize above all else

[BaltBird 24]

I don't see a problem with one source. Obviously, that source is disgruntled. Doesn't make him/her any less credible.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I don't see a problem with one source. Obviously, that source is disgruntled. Doesn't make him/her any less credible.

Sure there is a source. No one thinks the writer made it up. Its on the writer, if youre trying to be fair and accurate, to do better. Much better.

[BaltBird 24]

I don't think anything in the article is surprising, either.

It's clear that Elias has his idea of how to build an organization, and spending huge money on FA's isn't near the top of his list.

We knew Rubenstein was going to be a hands off owner. I think he made it pretty clear that Elias had the keys.

Whether or not Elias views the team as a vanity project is just a personal opinion from someone with an ax to grind.