114 replies to this topic

[Mashed Potatoes]

https://pitcherlist....ght-from-owner/

Wow

[BaltBird 24]

Eh. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. There hasn't been a deal given out that I would've been particularly interested in besides, maybe, Eovaldi. Even then, he got the upper end of what I'd consider a comfortable deal for a 35 YO pitcher.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Accurate or not, there is clearly a former member of the organization with an axe to grind. Reads to me like it was one of the coaches let go after the season.

 

And the Soto part doesn’t make sense to me. If Angelos gave Elias the ok to make a deal for Soto, that must’ve meant Elias ran it by him first. But then the author/source says Elias had no interest in Soto. Uh, ok.

[makoman]

I don't normally give much credence to random anonymous sources on the internet, but Ben Palmer used to post here sometimes and has a regular column on pitching so probably does talk to people, has some credibility. Pitcher List is also a reputable site IMO as far as analysis goes...but doesn't normally break news like this. This does have strong vibes of angry ex employee with an axe to grind and seems to be just one source, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. Palmer has been pretty trusting of Elias from what I've seen too, so doesn't seem like he's just out to trash the FO.

 

Anyway, there are a lot of damning things in this article if true. It's like the worst case nightmare scenario that I feel like dude could have written.

 

As always, grain of salt with anon sources and all that. Maybe it's nothing if it's just spin by one disgruntled source. Or perhaps there is truth there. 

[makoman]

Accurate or not, there is clearly a former member of the organization with an axe to grind. Reads to me like it was one of the coaches let go after the season.

 

And the Soto part doesn’t make sense to me. If Angelos gave Elias the ok to make a deal for Soto, that must’ve meant Elias ran it by him first. But then the author/source says Elias had no interest in Soto. Uh, ok.

Soto was pretty clearly on the block last year, Angelos reads the paper and could have brought him up to Elias. He also might have known that he wasn't going to be signing the checks for too much longer.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Soto was pretty clearly on the block last year, Angelos reads the paper and could have brought him up to Elias. He also might have known that he wasn't going to be signing the checks for too much longer.

Maybe it was just the verbiage the author chose, but it read like Elias would have initiated the idea, then shot it down as soon as Angelos said ok.

 

Besides, he did end up getting Burnes, and as nice as it would have been to have Soto’s bat in the lineup when the offense faded late in the season, this time last year I think most people would have agreed a TOR starter was the greater priority. And like Burnes, Soto would always have been a one year rental. While Rubenstein might be willing to spend more, seriously doubt he’d be dumb enough to match or beat the Mets deal.

 

I definitely concur that Elias’s track record is mixed when it comes to building a major league roster. I can even agree with some of the “vanity project” stuff. And we know he was given full control over baseball operations by Angelos. That’s not news. But some of what’s in there sounds vindictive to me. Like the new ownership group being naive. While he never worked in a front office, Cal and his family have been a part of baseball organizations for most of their lives. I think he knows a thing or two.

[Slidemaster]

Well, that paints the bleakest possible picture.

[Mackus]

A source who describes Elias's approach to running the Orioles as a "vanity project" is probably someone we all should take very seriously.

This type of nonsense makes it difficult to make actual criticisms of Elias and the O's since people lump in legit complaints with garbage like this.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I don't normally give much credence to random anonymous sources on the internet, but Ben Palmer used to post here sometimes and has a regular column on pitching so probably does talk to people, has some credibility. 

 

Ben will be back writing for us next month.

[BSLChrisStoner]

A source who describes Elias's approach to running the Orioles as a "vanity project" is probably someone we all should take very seriously.

This type of nonsense makes it difficult to make actual criticisms of Elias and the O's since people lump in legit complaints with garbage like this.

 

Knowing Ben some, I'm sure the source is legitimate, and has their perspective, but I don't agree with the conclusions. 

[Mackus]

Knowing Ben some, I'm sure the source is legitimate, and has their perspective, but I don't agree with the conclusions.

Nothing at all comes out of this front office for years, no info about any moves before they happen, including up to last week when they signed O'Neill and Sanchez. But now there is an informed source that has a take that Elias won't spend so that he can avoid accountability?

Nobody should take this source seriously. Does Ben have multiple sources confirming this?

[Hooded Viper]

He doesn’t want to spend because he doesn’t want to be held accountable? I call total BS on that. Elias doesn’t ever give off a fear of failing vibe!

[makoman]

Nothing at all comes out of this front office for years, no info about any moves before they happen, including up to last week when they signed O'Neill and Sanchez. But now there is an informed source that has a take that Elias won't spend so that he can avoid accountability?

Nobody should take this source seriously. Does Ben have multiple sources confirming this?

People that work there definitely don't leak. Someone who was let go might. But I agree that until there's multiple sources it is difficult to take seriously, just sounds like someone with an axe to grind, and someone who was let go might also paint Elias in the worst possible light.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Ben's source, known only as JTrea81, sent Ben a link to an article written by Jonathan French as proof.

[BaltBird 24]

I mean, it's possible there's SOME truth to it. Obviously, the first couple of years were all about tearing down and building back up. Some wanted to spend just to be somewhat watchable, but they obviously wanted to go full scorched Earth.

Elias, aside from O'Neill, hasn't given out a multi year deal to anyone for a team squarely in the championship caliber conversation.

On the other hand, he did go out and acquire a true, legitimate TOR pitcher last offseason in Burnes. He also added Eflin, a pitcher due $18M in 2025.

I'm sure there are some truths and lies to this article.

[makoman]

I'm sure there are some truths and lies to this article.

Assuming the source is legit, I would guess the factual things may mostly be true, but the opinion type things are embellished by a source with a disgruntled perspective.

 

Like, Elias would prefer not to spend big money, Rubinstein greatly defers to him, and Elias doesn't really have much in the way of checks on him? All probably true and most of us would probably agree with this. Maybe even the Soto thing is true and he was mainly looking for a SP with his assets. But calling it "a vanity project" or saying he's "in over his head" or that ownership is "naive" or Hyde is "a puppet" sound like embellishments to make Elias look bad.

[CantonJester]

I don't need a #fakenews piece to know Hyde is a puppet. 

[ivanbalt]

The important thing to know is that the front office is united in raising prices on concessions.

[BaltBird 24]

Assuming the source is legit, I would guess the factual things may mostly be true, but the opinion type things are embellished by a source with a disgruntled perspective.

Like, Elias would prefer not to spend big money, Rubinstein greatly defers to him, and Elias doesn't really have much in the way of checks on him? All probably true and most of us would probably agree with this. Maybe even the Soto thing is true and he was mainly looking for a SP with his assets. But calling it "a vanity project" or saying he's "in over his head" or that ownership is "naive" or Hyde is "a puppet" sound like embellishments to make Elias look bad.

Honestly, I'd rather ownership be "naive" and not interfere in baseball operations. How often does meddling ownership really work out?

[BSLChrisStoner]

Nothing at all comes out of this front office for years, no info about any moves before they happen, including up to last week when they signed O'Neill and Sanchez. But now there is an informed source that has a take that Elias won't spend so that he can avoid accountability?

Nobody should take this source seriously. Does Ben have multiple sources confirming this?

IDK if he has multiple sources or not.  Haven't spoken to him.   

I'd agree that this FO is pretty tight lipped in-terms of their forthcoming moves (they don't feed the media as much as previous FOs), thats a bit different here. 

The assumption of several of us is that it reads with someone with an ax to grind.
Maybe they're in the FO, maybe they were.
Maybe it's others around Baseball Operations, or with enough contacts within to feel good about their info. 

 

Regardless, I don't think the messaging means much of anything. 

 

I don't buy the conclusions that Elias won't spend $ available to him.
I can buy that Elias has his vision and would like to see it through to completion, and maybe others interpret that as he won't spend, or cash in chips... but I think that's a foolish interpretation.
I can buy that Elias isn't excited to spend $ just to spend $, if he doesn't feel it's prudent.

I think the lines about vanity project, or any notion of Elias being in over his head are laughable.