429 replies to this topic

[RShack]

Buck shoud have pinch hit for him. He then shouldn't have let him throw 30 pitches in the 6th inning, in a game which he labored. Yes, the onus is on BMat to get the job done but it's on Buck to make sure he is in a position to succeed....they both failed.

I don't think Buck's decision was just about this particular game. I think everybody knew Matusz was huffin' and puffin'... and that certainly includes Showalter.

My guess (based on not much) is that Buck thinks it's time for Matusz to grow up and act like somebody. I think this was a case of Buck saying to him, "Yeah, I know you're tired... so what? It's still your game... whatcha gonna do?"

[RichardZ]

And RZ, I say if Davis doesn't make that great catch, that BMat doesnt go that deep in the inning. That was a loud and lucky out.

It really wasn't that loud but it was a great catch by Davis to help Matusz out. Jones hit the ball in the right place but it wasn't exactly a screaming line drive.

[RShack]

I don't think Buck's decision was just about this particular game. I think everybody knew Matusz was huffin' and puffin'... and that certainly includes Showalter.

My guess (based on not much) is that Buck thinks it's time for Matusz to grow up and act like somebody. I think this was a case of Buck saying to him, "Yeah, I know you're tired... so what? It's still your game... whatcha gonna do?"

BTW, I'm not saying it was a good idea or a bad idea, just saying that I think that was what it's about moreso than just that game.

Since I have exactly zilch experience in helping SP's develop or in building a ML team into a winner, I don't know what all the parts of it are. If there might be anything to what I'm guessing it was about, that's one example of something that no box score or other form of data capture can tell us anything about... it's more about developing human potential than it is about just a ballgame or even a single season... it's about trying to push a guy's career forward... and about Buck's criteria for nugget-hood....

[RichardZ]

Well, I think even Buck has said we are past the point where these guys should be babied or considered young pitchers. They are ML pitchers. No need to help them "grow up". You either get the job done or you don't. I don't think last night was about Matusz growing up. I think Buck decided it was worth letting him bat to try and get one more inning out of him and one less inning out of the bullpen. Simple as that. I think it was the wrong decision. Simple as that. It's about winning now. It's not about testing Matusz to see if he can go one more inning when he's tired.

[JeremyStrain]

It was a fine line. I can see a very defensible point for both sides, but you really want to get that 6IP out of your starter.

BMat is just interesting with the way his stuff works, relies too much on K's sometimes, which also leads to more BB, and it's almost a given that at least one of his pitches will be off any given night. When he gets tired all it takes is hanging one of those curves and it's trouble.

I didn't think it was a terrible start, just didn't end the way we'd like, and hopefully he comes back strong next start.

[Oriole85]

I love how Matusz becomes the victim. Matusz hurt everyone but not getting it done. He was lucky to have given up one run up until the 6th. He walked the bases loaded one inning. He give up a homer to a rookie with little power. Matusz let Buck down, not the other way around. Buck let us down for not PH for Matusz in the top of the 6th. Asking your pitcher to give you six is not asking too much of that pitcher.

Agreed, I think asking a starter to go six is bare minimum. And it's not asking like it's Matusz first rodeo. He had a bad year last year, is doing much better this year. Verdict is still way out on him.

[RShack]

Well, I think even Buck has said we are past the point where these guys should be babied or considered young pitchers. They are ML pitchers. No need to help them "grow up". You either get the job done or you don't. I don't think last night was about Matusz growing up. I think Buck decided it was worth letting him bat to try and get one more inning out of him and one less inning out of the bullpen. Simple as that. I think it was the wrong decision. Simple as that. It's about winning now. It's not about testing Matusz to see if he can go one more inning when he's tired.

Could be. Obviously, I don't know what Buck was thinking.

The main reason I thought it was Buck pushing him was because of what it looked like on TV during the 6th... to me, it looked like Matusz kept looking in the dugout... while Buck was sitting on the bench, leaning back with his arms crossed. I took that to be Buck saying, "Don't look over here... get some more outs instead." But maybe I'm just making that up...

[RichardZ]

Could be. Obviously, I don't know what Buck was thinking.

The main reason I thought it was Buck pushing him was because of what it looked like on TV during the 6th... to me, it looked like Matusz kept looking in the dugout... while Buck was sitting on the bench, leaning back with his arms crossed. I took that to be Buck saying, "Don't look over here... get some more outs instead." But maybe I'm just making that up...

Not sure if anything you said, conflicts with anything I said, but it seems like you think it does.

You seem to place more weight on Buck getting Matusz "to grow up" while I place more weight on Buck wanting one more inning out of his pitcher (no matter who that pitcher was) in order to need only 3 innings from his bullpen. I think it was more about the team and less about Matusz but getting Matusz to pitch through the 6th was obviously a byproduct of that.

[SportsGuy]

It's obvious why BMat was left in IMO.

He got 2 outs in the 6th, including a k. He had the bottom of the order up to get 2 outs. Buck wanted to give him a chance to get out of the inning.

[RShack]

Not sure if anything you said, conflicts with anything I said, but it seems like you think it does.

You seem to place more weight on Buck getting Matusz "to grow up" while I place more weight on Buck wanting one more inning out of his pitcher (no matter who that pitcher was) in order to need only 3 innings from his bullpen. I think it was more about the team and less about Matusz but getting Matusz to pitch through the 6th was obviously a byproduct of that.

OK... that's fair...

[Adam Wolff]

Would be really nice if Matusz could be the stopper tonight.

Scoring a run or two might help as well

[SportsGuy]

Would be really nice if Matusz could be the stopper tonight.

Scoring a run or two might help as well

Good park for him to pitch in.

[JHTerp01]

I'm interested to see how he holds up in this heat since it's hot as balls in NY too. Hopefully the Brady factor is visible.

[RShack]

I'm interested to see how he holds up in this heat since it's hot as balls in NY too. Hopefully the Brady factor is visible.

Balls are cool. That's why we have them... so the little sperm don't cook.
On the other hand, I don't know if you're allowed to say hot as pussy...

EDIT: Yep, you can...

[You Play to Win the Game]

Frustrating game for Matusz today. Frustrated FOR Matusz, not WITH Matusz. Weak, dinky hits, and some poor defense hurt him all night. His line: 4.2 IP, 7 hits, 3 ER, 2 BB, 2 K's. Season ERA is up to 5.00.

I'm surprised to see his FIP/xFIP at 4.68/4.72. To me, he's seemed to be a lot better than his 5.00 ERA suggests.

[Adam Wolff]

Frustrating game for Matusz today. Frustrated FOR Matusz, not WITH Matusz. Weak, dinky hits, and some poor defense hurt him all night. His line: 4.2 IP, 7 hits, 3 ER, 2 BB, 2 K's. Season ERA is up to 5.00.

I'm surprised to see his FIP/xFIP at 4.68/4.72. To me, he's seemed to be a lot better than his 5.00 ERA suggests.

Yeah, I agree with you.

He wasn't lights out of anything, but he was better than the line indicates.

It's just so discouraging to see what our cavalry is right now. Matusz is basically a bottom of the order guy, Arrieta is probably not deserving of a rotation spot, and Tillman can't get out of AAA.

On the bright side, if you would have told me a few years ago that the Orioles would have this record in 2012 and none of the 3 of them would be contributing much, I would have been shocked. I'd just like it to click for one of them at least.

[SportsGuy]

Frustrating game for Matusz today. Frustrated FOR Matusz, not WITH Matusz. Weak, dinky hits, and some poor defense hurt him all night. His line: 4.2 IP, 7 hits, 3 ER, 2 BB, 2 K's. Season ERA is up to 5.00.

I'm surprised to see his FIP/xFIP at 4.68/4.72. To me, he's seemed to be a lot better than his 5.00 ERA suggests.

317 babip...high walk rate.

Buck said he thought BMat threw 30 pitches last night that he shouldn't have thrown but did because of poor/shaky defense.

On a hot night, that will kill you.

His biggest issue is putting guys away.

[Coker]

And there we have it. Matusz is being sent down to AAA.

[You Play to Win the Game]

And there we have it. Matusz is being sent down to AAA.

Let's see what Peterson can do with him down there. Very disappointed though.

[SportsGuy]

I didn't see his start today.

Watching BMat this year, I have seen a guy who hasn't been able to put guys away lately but seems to have a lot of bad luck and poor defense behind him.

I think he needs repot throw the change up more. That is his best pitch but he seems to get away from it too often.

Tillman is on the same day as him, so he makes sense to make the next start. Problem with Tillman is that he is only going 5-5.2 IP despite good numbers.

EDIT: Updated the thread title. -GP