196 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

Im getting old. Remind me again are we talking about Carlos Rodon circa 2020.

No, we aren’t talking about a late blooming pitcher. We’re discussing a 31 year old 2B no one wants and that does nothing to move this team forward in 2023.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

No, we aren’t talking about a late blooming pitcher. We’re discussing a 31 year old 2B no one wants and that does nothing to move this team forward in 2023.

Rodon had some ups before he had downs. He's a year younger than Frazier. Its baseball. There is certainly reason to believe Frazier can still be a 2+ WAR player. Which had we had a 2+ WAR 2b in '22 and a healthy GRod who knows

[You Play to Win the Game]

Yeah that’s the type of thing the budding O’s should be aiming for. A Frazier rebound! Let’s all buy more tickets.

Slick Mike wants to sell us this big bad huge contract thing, but then spends $18M on two pieces that do nothing to move the needle. How the hell does that make sense?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Yeah that’s the type of thing the budding O’s should be aiming for. A Frazier rebound! Let’s all buy more tickets.

The other options are better? You betting on Urias or Westburg being better cause I wouldnt. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

The other options are better? You betting on Urias or Westburg being better cause I wouldnt.

Slick Mike is the talent development king, what went wrong?

[BSLChrisStoner]

The other options are better? You betting on Urias or Westburg being better cause I wouldnt. 

 

Frazier's had some productive years, no doubt.  I'm willing to believe he's closer to his '18,'19, '21 levels vs. '22....   but I'd rather see Westburg get that everyday time and experience vs watching to see if Frazier rebounds. 

 

Re: Westburg's glove...    I've never seen him.  My understanding is the arm is good, and while he'd be average at best at SS, he should be solid defensively at 2nd.  Maybe 3rd is his best position, but everything I've seen says he won't be a liability at 2nd.

[makoman]

Frazier's had some productive years, no doubt.  I'm willing to believe he's closer to his '18,'19, '21 levels vs. '22....   but I'd rather see Westburg get that everyday time and experience vs watching to see if Frazier rebounds. 

 

Re: Westburg's glove...    I've never seen him.  My understanding is the arm is good, and while he'd be average at best at SS, he should be solid defensively at 2nd.  Maybe 3rd is his best position, but everything I've seen says he won't be a liability at 2nd.

Same here.

 

I also don't know where all this "whispers of defensive concerns in a shiftless world" stuff is coming from because I've never heard that about any of these guys before yesterday, and from no one except 2035. Apologies to OTV if you've talked about it, haven't listened in a while.

[Mackus]

Frazier as the utility guy would make a lot of sense.  I'd rather see Westburg or Urias everyday over Frazier at 2B.  I also think that Urias is the overall better player and would make a good utility guy himself, but  Frazier's ability to play corner OF gives him an edge over Urias' stronger bat for that bench position. 

 

But if Frazier can't bounce back to at least a mid-90s OPS+/wRC+ type hitter then he's completely useless.  Its been 800 consecutive PAs of awful, so I think there is fair concern that he may be done as a useful offensive player.  

 

$8M for everything described above that Frazier can do is a crazy price, IMO, but I don't really care if they spend unwisely unless the money spent eliminates them from doing other things.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Frazier as the utility guy would make a lot of sense.  I'd rather see Westburg or Urias everyday over Frazier at 2B.  I also think that Urias is the overall better player and would make a good utility guy himself, but  Frazier's ability to play corner OF gives him an edge over Urias' stronger bat for that bench position. 

 

But if Frazier can't bounce back to at least a mid-90s OPS+/wRC+ type hitter then he's completely useless.

 

$8M for everything described above that Frazier can do is a crazy price, IMO, but I don't really care if they spend unwisely unless the money spent eliminates them from doing other things.  

Urias was a reverse platoon split guy but I want Frazier in vs RHP. To start the year. Things can change over the course of 162, but unlike you, I dont have concerns that they wouldnt switch him into a uti role if he wasnt producing.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Urias was a reverse platoon split guy but I want Frazier in vs RHP. To start the year. Things can change over the course of 162, but unlike you, I dont have concerns that they wouldnt switch him into a uti role if he wasnt producing.

Rougned Odor says hello.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Same here.

 

I also don't know where all this "whispers of defensive concerns in a shiftless world" stuff is coming from because I've never heard that about any of these guys before yesterday, and from no one except 2035. Apologies to OTV if you've talked about it, haven't listened in a while.

It’s coming from those who have to applaud Elias every time he takes a dump. And now it’s reaching new levels of absurdity by starting “whispers” of major flaws in our top prospects when Elias signs someone at the same position.

[Mackus]

Urias was a reverse platoon split guy but I want Frazier in vs RHP. To start the year. Things can change over the course of 162, but unlike you, I dont have concerns that they wouldnt switch him into a uti role if he wasnt producing.

 

Pass. Urias is better today, so I want him over Frazier regularly to start.  If Urias struggles and/or Frazier looks good in the time he gets, then you can flip flop.

 

I have significant concerns that they'll let Frazier's salary influence playing time and roster spot decisions.  They've always let that be a factor before.  Hope it isn't, or that Frazier plays well enough that it's moot.

[BSLRoseKatz]

Still not seeing an argument that makes me think Frazier's skillset/positional versatility for 8 million is a better use of money than Vavra's skillset/positional versatility for basically nothing

[Old Man]

They wanted a lefty playing 1st.

 

This must be it lol

[BobPhelan]

I wish Adam Frazier was a topic on here before yesterday (maybe I missed it?) to see if there would have been any support for signing him.

I heard his name mentioned at the start of the season and my thoughts were basically “meh, ok” which are pretty much my thoughts now.

[BSLMikeLowe]

If he was versatile enough to play C, this would be a lot easier to understand, even though $8M is pricey for a backup.

[BobPhelan]

BTW I mentioned this last night but I think this absolutely speaks to the Os likely having concerns about Westburgs ability to play 2b regularly. Maybe any middle Inf position. It was interesting he was never called up in Sept. He seems likeliest to be trade bait to me of Ortiz, and Norby. Ortiz is a lock to stay at SS if he can hit. Surely could play 2b too. Norby is a pure 2b or corner OF but seems to have the highest upside with the bat of the 3.

I think Westburg is better at third than second mostly because he has a good arm and isn’t as smooth as Gunnar or Ortiz but I think he would be fine over there. He’d be better than Vavra defensively for example. But I’d think Ortiz or Norby would be more ideal.

[Mackus]

I heard his name mentioned at the start of the season and my thoughts were basically “meh, ok” which are pretty much my thoughts now.

 

He was never discussed here.  Not a single mention of his name in the search history until he was signed.  I think that's what mweb was talking about, and I kind of mentioned earlier.  2B was a position that was completely open for an upgrade (though Urias and Westburg were acceptable candidates for the job) and nobody considered Frazier on the radar as potential options.

[BobPhelan]

He was never discussed here. Not a single mention of his name in the search history until he was signed. I think that's what mweb was talking about, and I kind of mentioned earlier. 2B was a position that was completely open for an upgrade (though Urias and Westburg were acceptable candidates for the job) and nobody considered Frazier on the radar as potential options.

Makes sense. Think I heard his name attached to us on the MASN All Access podcast free agent bracket.

[PrimeTime]

The Yanks were so terrified of Frazier's lefty stick in the division that they countered by signing Rodon.