196 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

I see no reason to think that Urias can be as good as he was at 3B and yet won't be good at 2B if given extended run there.  Not everybody who can play a good 3B can move over and play a good 2B, but I think athletic guys with range like Urias almost always can.  Its not like he's a slow guy who just happens to have quick reflexes and good hands.

 

I won't argue he'll be better at 2B than Frazier, but he'd be fine to good and Frazier can't really hope to hit as well as Urias even if he's able to bounce back from falling on his face for 800 PA since he was traded in 2021.

 

We don't have to choose between them, can play either one, so that's nice. But I'd have Urias ahead of Frazier to begin the year.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

So lets take off our shit all over everything Elias does cap for a moment and think logically from his perspective on why he made this move instead of penciling Urias in there to start the year.  He obviously has a reason for making this signing. It might not turn out to be a good one but it wasnt done with no insight or plan in mind.

[makoman]

I see no reason to think that Urias can be as good as he was at 3B and yet won't be good at 2B if given extended run there.  Not everybody who can play a good 3B can move over and play a good 2B, but I think athletic guys with range like Urias almost always can.  Its not like he's a slow guy who just happens to have quick reflexes and good hands.

 

I won't argue he'll be better at 2B than Frazier, but he'd be fine to good and Frazier can't really hope to hit as well as Urias even if he's able to bounce back from falling on his face for 800 PA since he was traded in 2021.

 

We don't have to choose between them, can play either one, so that's nice. But I'd have Urias ahead of Frazier to begin the year.  

Urias was ok at 2nd last year but I think the sample was too small. He was worse the year before but still fairly small sample. Like you I don't see why he'd be awful if he's that good at 3rd. They are very different, but he seemed adequate. He will be worse than Frazier for sure, but I don't think it'd be "miles" and believe the bat would make up for it.

 

ETA I haven't shit on Elias one bit this offseason. I have had patience and have moved almost all blame from him to ownership. But I hate this move.

[You Play to Win the Game]

So lets take off our shit all over everything Elias does cap for a moment and think logically from his perspective on why he made this move instead of penciling Urias in there to start the year. He obviously has a reason for making this signing. It might not turn out to be a good one but it wasnt done with no insight or plan in mind.

He wants to try and maintain last years progress with 1 year deals, but not go for it yet. Because that would start some sort of clock. His boss has obviously given him another year to sit back and evaluate, and he’s going to take it.

[Mackus]

So lets take off our shit all over everything Elias does cap for a moment and think logically from his perspective on why he made this move instead of penciling Urias in there to start the year.  He obviously has a reason for making this signing. It might not turn out to be a good one but it wasnt done with no insight or plan in mind.

 

I already said why I think.  He's an insurance policy for backsliding from Mateo and maybe even Hays if they think he can play LF.  Urias as well, I suppose, though I assume they move Urias to the bench to begin the year despite him being the better overall player, IMO.

 

I don't think they liked Vavra for the super utility role, so whoever doesn't start between Frazier/Urias take on that role with the benefit of the positional flexibility from others.

 

I wouldn't hate it if I didn't think the salary bought him the entire year on the roster even if he's the guy that needs to go due to bad performance (or door-busting by some Norfolk infielders).  But I do think that, so I do hate it.  He's not a depth signing, he's an intended solution, and he's a bad one.

[makoman]

I already said why I think.  He's an insurance policy for backsliding from Mateo and maybe even Hays if they think he can play LF.  Urias as well, I suppose, though I assume they move Urias to the bench to begin the year despite him being the better overall player, IMO.

 

I don't think they liked Vavra for the super utility role, so whoever doesn't start between Frazier/Urias take on that role with the benefit of the positional flexibility from others.

I don't think you pay $8M for insurance. 

[BSLRoseKatz]

Now we dont know how much the shift helped him but again speaks to his defense. In a shiftless world he seemingly is miles better than Urias defensively at 2b. The bat difference doesnt make up for it. If there is even much of a bat difference. Ill give that to Urias but its not some lock.

Urias had a 103 OPS+ last year and Frazier had an 80 OPS+ last year so given how OPS+ works I'd say there's 23% difference between their bats   

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I don't think you pay $8M for insurance. 

That and I dont buy the Hays insurance anyway. They can play Santander in OF if necessary. I also expect another signing even if its someone like Dom Smith who could only DH pushing AS into more OF time. THis of course is also assuming Stowers is on the roster all year. He should be.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Urias had a 103 OPS+ last year and Frazier had an 80 OPS+ last year so given how OPS+ works I'd say there's 23% difference between their bats   

You arent foolish to go off a 1 yr sample size. Especially when Urias only has 760 career PAs

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I already said why I think.  He's an insurance policy for backsliding from Mateo and maybe even Hays if they think he can play LF.  Urias as well, I suppose, though I assume they move Urias to the bench to begin the year despite him being the better overall player, IMO.

 

I don't think they liked Vavra for the super utility role, so whoever doesn't start between Frazier/Urias take on that role with the benefit of the positional flexibility from others.

 

I wouldn't hate it if I didn't think the salary bought him the entire year on the roster even if he's the guy that needs to go due to bad performance (or door-busting by some Norfolk infielders).  But I do think that, so I do hate it.  He's not a depth signing, he's an intended solution, and he's a bad one.

Yes they move Urias to the bench or at least to the weak side of a platoon with Frazier. Might be wrong but Elias isnt dumb. He thinks Frazier is the better option or a Urias trade is in the works. Those are the two  logical conclusions.

 

 

BTW there were some things to like about Vavra but hes most likely a AAAA. Def cant depend on him as a super uti . At least not to start the year. Has to go to AAA

 

 

Also dont think he will be holding Norby back if Norby performs in AAA. Not in the least. Assuming Norby is here of course.

[Slidemaster]

Elias is a freaking idiot.

Who does this? Who was their competitor that made them up their offer to 8 million?

Why do they NEED a guy with Frazier's meager skill set?

Why are they likely going into 2023 with a minor league system that has, quite literally, 10 players of value Who will never see regular playing time in Baltimore, instead of turning them into an upgrade?

There is no explanation for this. None. No rationale.

I'm over it. They'll never get there.

[BobPhelan]

Frazier is essentially a veteran version of Vavra with much better defense.

[Mackus]

Also dont think he will be holding Norby back if Norby performs in AAA. Not in the least. Assuming Norby is here of course.

Hope you're right, but they didn't move Odor last year when there were interesting options. I can't envision them dumping or benching him on his $8M salary.

I don't care what they're actually paying him. Its irrelevant, they had mountains of money left to do whatever they want if they actually wanted to do anything, so the salary or the negotiation of his contract isn't what I'm worried about. I'm worried about the implication that comes with that salary. I doubt they'll make a purely baseball decision regarding Frazier and think the salary will be an albatross that prevents or delays the right move from being made if he doesn't bounce back from his bad year. If he plays well, then not a concern.

[Mackus]

[You Play to Win the Game]

Haha, that’s awesome.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Elias is a freaking idiot.

Who does this? Who was their competitor that made them up their offer to 8 million?

Why do they NEED a guy with Frazier's meager skill set?

Why are they likely going into 2023 with a minor league system that has, quite literally, 10 players of value Who will never see regular playing time in Baltimore, instead of turning them into an upgrade?

There is no explanation for this. None. No rationale.

I'm over it. They'll never get there.

Bye. Please bye. GO root for the Astros

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Hope you're right, but they didn't move Odor last year when there were interesting options. I can't envision them dumping or benching him on his $8M salary.

I don't care what they're actually paying him. Its irrelevant, they had mountains of money left to do whatever they want if they actually wanted to do anything, so the salary or the negotiation of his contract isn't what I'm worried about. I'm worried about the implication that comes with that salary. I doubt they'll make a purely baseball decision regarding Frazier and think the salary will be an albatross that prevents or delays the right move from being made if he doesn't bounce back from his bad year. If he plays well, then not a concern.

[makoman]

Frazier is essentially a veteran version of Vavra with much better defense.

I agree, which is fine to some extent. 

 

The Ravens talk about the 80/20 rule. Get 80% of the production using 20% of the cost. Now, they have to cause they have a salary cap, but the Orioles act like they have a cap so they need to be aware of these things too. I'd rather have Vavra for $800k than spend over 10% of the payroll on Frazier. 

[Slidemaster]

Bye. Please bye. GO root for the Astros

You literally JUST SAID you were going to have to consider adopting another team.

I've never said that.

Do you ever get tired of being a hypocrite?

[Mackus]

Frazier is essentially a veteran version of Vavra with much better defense.

This is assuming his past 800 PA were a fluke and that he can bounce back to the league average hitter he was before.