196 replies to this topic

[mdrunning]

I guess I'm in the camp of not hating the Frazier signing as much as anyone else. I certainly don't love it, but it's a depth and options move in case some of the other players struggle. Eight million is a bit pricey for such a transaction, but I've always been of the opinion that there's really no such thing as a bad one-year deal.

 

I really don't think the Orioles are going to keep running Frazier out there just to justify the signing. If he isn't doing well as the season progresses, he won't be playing, regardless of whether or not he's an eight-million dollar line item on the payroll.

[BaltBird 24]

I'm just glad we can all come together and argue over a replacement level 2B/utility player.

[BSLRoseKatz]

I guess I'm in the camp of not hating the Frazier signing as much as anyone else. I certainly don't love it, but it's a depth and options move in case some of the other players struggle. Eight million is a bit pricey for such a transaction, but I've always been of the opinion that there's really no such thing as a bad one-year deal.

 

I really don't think the Orioles are going to keep running Frazier out there just to justify the signing. If he isn't doing well as the season progresses, regardless of whether or not he's an eight-million dollar line item on the payroll.

 

I don't have any reason to believe they'll do that after never meaningfully benching Odor last year

[You Play to Win the Game]

Frazier just said that the reason he chose Baltimore was the opportunity to play every day at 2B or a corner OF spot.

https://twitter.com/...67SMIrXMURb0ePg

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Again Ill say its Dec 15. You guys dont know whats going on behind the Os closed doors nor do you know how the market is playing out. You  are uninformed but act like you know everything and want to criticize based on that misinformation

So then Mr. Baseball please tell us just WHAT so far this offseason points to a team trying to improve itself going into 2023? Dying to know since clearly none of the rest of us are smart enough to see it.

[mweb08]

Frazier just said that the reason he chose Baltimore was the opportunity to play every day at 2B or a corner OF spot.

https://twitter.com/...67SMIrXMURb0ePg

Oh boy

Also lol at your new name

[Nigel Tufnel]

Frazier is a pretty clear upgrade from Odor for whatever that's worth.

 

Plus, you get full years from Adley and Gunnar, Gibson's probably better than Lyles, all the young guys are a year closer, Means will come back at some point, they play fewer games against the AL East...  those are all improvements, I guess, even if it's been a disappointing offseason.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Frazier just said that the reason he chose Baltimore was the opportunity to play every day at 2B or a corner OF spot.

https://twitter.com/...67SMIrXMURb0ePg

 

Yeah, look at Frazier on bb-ref - he's basically played every game for the past four seasons.  Combine that with an $8M salary, and it's pretty likely that the O's intend to play him every day.

[Mackus]

Frazier is a pretty clear upgrade from Odor for whatever that's worth.

 

They were equally terrible offensively last year.  Agree that Frazier is a better defender and his LF-eligibility is valuable if the bat bounces back.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Szymborski hates it lol, great read. Look at the projections for the O’s options at 2B in the chart he provides in the article. This excerpt below is so spot on.

The 2022 and ’23 seasons should have been the Bildungsroman for the O’s — the coming of age of a team shifting from rebuilding mode to that of a serious contender. Or, to put it differently, the Bond villain reveal moment, when suddenly the master plan comes into view, whether it’s trigging a nuclear war on a global scale, destroying humanity to establish a perfect society under the sea or in space, or raising the price of water in Bolivia. I’ve been saying for years that “now is not the time” for the Orioles to make a big splash at bidding on top talent in free agency. But now is the time. Build on that 83-win season, push forward, and reignite the city’s fading love affair with the orange-and-black.

Instead, the Orioles have signed a second baseman they already have and an innings-eater (Kyle Gibson) who was so trusted by his previous employer that despite playing in October until Game 6 of the World Series, they only used him twice in the playoffs in short mopup stints. That’s not world domination; that’s pocketing a container of Tic-Tacs while the cashier at Royal Farms is busy ringing up the box of potato wedges you got at the counter. And while there’s still a lot of offseason to go, 16 of our top 20 free agents are officially off the board. Only a single pitcher projected for at least 2 WAR in our depth charts, Nathan Eovaldi, remains unsigned. The O’s could still make a trade, but a trade for anyone worth having will involve losing talent who could otherwise help the team in future years. Baltimore is more than $150 million below the first luxury tax threshold, with zero guaranteed contracts past 2023. This was the time to use cash, always the best way to acquire goods and services.

In sum, this is the right player at the right price for precisely the wrong team. To paraphrase Nietzsche, if you stare at the Pirates, the Pirates stare back at you. Someone should inform the Orioles that they are actually wild-card contenders.

Pretty scathing. Granted, he doesn’t understand baseball probably so take it with a grain of salt.

https://blogs.fangra...g-adam-frazier/

[mweb08]

Frazier is a pretty clear upgrade from Odor for whatever that's worth.

Not much imo.

There was no incentive to upgrade to a better version of Odor imo. There was incentive to get a legit difference maker in the infield. This just takes away at bats from better, younger, more intriguing players, like Odor did once some of the young infield talent came up.

Bring in a legit difference maker, then great, have the prospects wait longer for a chance, and/or make Urias/Mateo compete for time, and/or trade someone.

[BSLRoseKatz]

The upgrade on Odor is not having him start because now your infield can be Gunnar 3B, Mateo SS and Urias 2B 

[mweb08]

Szymborski hates it lol, great read. Look at the projections for the O’s options at 2B in the chart he provides in the article. This excerpt below is so spot on.

Pretty scathing. Granted, he doesn’t understand baseball probably so take it with a grain of salt.

https://blogs.fangra...g-adam-frazier/

Dan is saying exactly what I've been saying for months.

That this is right on should be readily apparent to anyone. Usually when I disagree with people I can at least see their side. On this though, I really don't get it from anyone other than those that are directly profiting from their frugality.

Again, it's ok to be a big fan of Elias' work with scouting, drafting, and development (I am), but be highly critical of what's happening (or mostly not happening) while the franchise has this golden opportunity.

[makoman]

We're definitely improved over last year. I like Gibson more than Lyles and Frazier more than Odor, and there should be internal improvements. 

 

The problem is we aren't competing with the 2022 Orioles, we need to be better than the 2023 Yankees, Rays, Blue Jays, Red Sox, even if only casuals worry about the division.

 

This also ignores the question of whether last year was like the 90th percentile outcome, a 50th percentile outcome next year can have us under 500 even if the team is better.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Nobody has a real problem with brining in Gibson.

 

Nobody has a real problem bringing in Frazier.

 

What most do have a real problem with is that these are the "difference makers" we have signed thus far. Many of the options we should have been able to obtain we didn't. THAT is the problem.

[BSLMikeLowe]

The upgrade on Odor is not having him start because now your infield can be Gunnar 3B, Mateo SS and Urias 2B 

 

It's like when your home badly needs a new roof, but you go and spend your limited funds on a new flat screen TV when you already have a couple of perfectly acceptable TVs. As comforting as it may be to know you'll still be able to watch the Super Bowl if your existing TVs break down, what good is that when the roof is leaking all around you?

[mweb08]

Nobody has a real problem with brining in Gibson.

Nobody has a real problem bringing in Frazier.

What most do have a real problem with is that these are the "difference makers" we have signed thus far. Many of the options we should have been able to obtain we didn't. THAT is the problem.

I have a real problem bringing in both of them. They should have been aiming much higher, like you say here, but then that would eliminate any reason to sign Gibson and Frazier. I'm not sure there's much reason to sign Frazier regardless, really.

[bmore_ken]

We're definitely improved over last year. I like Gibson more than Lyles and Frazier more than Odor,

Not by much with either and definitely not enough to move the needle.

[dude]

We're definitely improved over last year. I like Gibson more than Lyles and Frazier more than Odor,.....

 

I don't know what's so hard about this.

 

Lyles and Odor shouldn't be on this team.  Modest (if even that) improvements over guys that shouldn't be on the team isn't improving.

 

If you love Adam Frazier (I've made the argument for him in the past) that's great, but why do we care about him in 2023?  If you think there's something there....why wasn't he here from 2019-2022.  Now is not Adam Frazier Day. We've wasted 4 years accomplishing nothing through losing and now we need the type of player we could have acquired 4+ years ago to create modest opportunity.  Now we need the lesser version of that modest opportunity? 

 

...and if you think Frazier is going to go off in some type of epic career year, awesome.  Own it.  Don't tell me how you can't do anything with money or that you can't win the Division.  BECAUSE YOU JUST SIGNED ADAM FRASIER FOR 8M.  Adam Frazier was hoping to catch on any guaranteed contract.  He's probably a better aligned version of Vavra.  Why would we need that.

 

This is literally the 2007 signing of Jay Payton.

 

We are the worst team in MLB history from 2018-2021 and the answer to fixing [whatever] is a 35 year old Kyle Gibson coming off a 5.05 ERA and a 31 year old Adam Frazier coming off a .612 OPS.  Year 5.  Awesome.

[mdrunning]

Szymborski hates it lol, great read. Look at the projections for the O’s options at 2B in the chart he provides in the article. This excerpt below is so spot on.

Pretty scathing. Granted, he doesn’t understand baseball probably so take it with a grain of salt.

https://blogs.fangra...g-adam-frazier/

I had to laugh at the pilfered Tic-Tac/paid-for potato wedge analogy. That was pretty good.