347 replies to this topic

[hallas]

A healthy Humphrey and Hamilton, and maybe we have a different outcome. With that said, Macdonald is absolutely horrid at having his defense hold a lead. He plays scared. He got a sack, or big loss a few times yesterday on 1st and 2nd down. He followed that up with a soft zone, giving up 10+ yards underneath, and allowing a huge completion to easily be made. Enough of the free releases and "sticks" zone BS. Play like you've been playing. Let your press-man corners hit somebody at the line, and disrupt their routes. We have Dean Pees all over again. No lead is safe with the jackass in the booth.

 

I wholeheartedly believe that you can't scheme for bad secondary play, and this game shows you why.  When Humphrey was out for a couple series Lawrence walked all over us, and Hamilton almost certainly would have been a difference maker today with how well he's played.  I also think that MacDonald has been hiding Peters as best he can, because Peters has been a liability all season.  I don't think he's 100% yet.  He can't hide Peters when Humphrey is also missing time, and one of your starting safeties is also out.

[You Play to Win the Game]

This thread is doomed to mediocrity with some of these takes yall have.

You’re one of the only people on here who can’t see the struggle with this decision. Can’t see both sides. It drives you crazy that there’s another side to this debate. You see me differently lol. Just think about that.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

You’re one of the only people on here who can’t see the struggle with this decision. Can’t see both sides. It drives you crazy that there’s another side to this debate. You see me differently lol. Just think about that.

IM with you the way you  with me yesterday. I guess I got to you first. You got me back through text. IM trolling like you trolling at this point.

 

 

But you're right there really isnt another side to this debate. There is no debate. With that said, Ive already told you the end of his next contract might not be pretty and obviously a SB title is far from guaranteed. But thats the case for all QBs. Even Mahomes

[Biggsy]

I wholeheartedly believe that you can't scheme for bad secondary play, and this game shows you why. When Humphrey was out for a couple series Lawrence walked all over us, and Hamilton almost certainly would have been a difference maker today with how well he's played. I also think that MacDonald has been hiding Peters as best he can, because Peters has been a liability all season. I don't think he's 100% yet. He can't hide Peters when Humphrey is also missing time, and one of your starting safeties is also out.

Losing Hamilton and Humphrey obviously makes a huge difference. But seeing a 7+ yard cushion, and allowing easy lay-ups all the way down the field is infuriating.

[hallas]

Losing Hamilton and Humphrey obviously makes a huge difference. But seeing a 7+ yard cushion, and allowing easy lay-ups all the way down the field is infuriating.

Would you rather have bad corners play press, get burned, and allow a TD? Maybe that's an improvement, at least it gives us a chance to come back.

[Biggsy]

Would you rather have bad corners play press, get burned, and allow a TD? Maybe that's an improvement, at least it gives us a chance to come back.

I want to see us do what we did for the first 3 quarters that worked. I want to see us use our press-man CB's as press-man CB's. It's not a coincidence that Macdonald runs soft zones, and Peters has been obviously frustrated and vocal on the sidelines. He knows what he's good at, and he's not being allowed to do it. He's being abused while trying to fit into a defensive system, that he clearly doesn't fit in to. 100% certain he is gone after this season.

What I don't want to see is this defense do the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

[Ravens2006]

Personally I like press coverage and if in fantasy land where I controlled an NFL team I'd mandate press cover corners all the time. That said, on the 4th and 5 conversion, they had a NOT GOOD corner playing 7.5 yards off the LOS. Nevermind the two receivers on the other side with nobody lined up within about 10 yards of them at the snap. But what are the chances of a not good corner starting 7.5 yards off the ball, back peddling at the snap, then reacting and making a play on any quick throw? On 4th and 5, not 15. About zero.

Yet THAT is the position McDonald put them in, and Harbaugh stood idly by watching...

[SouthRider]

Lamar sure does have some mediocre QB stats for a guy some of you say is #2 or 3 in the league.  Geez.  

[Mackus]

Lamar sure does have some mediocre QB stats for a guy some of you say is #2 or 3 in the league. Geez.

Overall body of work and projection for the future. If his recent stats and performance aren't quite up to expectations, that's not necessarily disqualifying if you still expect him to be great moving forward, which I do.

And you have to strongly consider the alternatives as well. If he isn't quite as good as hoped and you end up overpaying the 7th or so best guy in the league by about 5%, that isn't that bad of a problem. Cowboys are doing that with Dak and don't seem too disappointed. If that's the downside, I'm much more comfortable with that potential than the downside of trying to find the next guy and hitting snake eyes there.

[hallas]

I want to see us do what we did for the first 3 quarters that worked. I want to see us use our press-man CB's as press-man CB's. It's not a coincidence that Macdonald runs soft zones, and Peters has been obviously frustrated and vocal on the sidelines. He knows what he's good at, and he's not being allowed to do it. He's being abused while trying to fit into a defensive system, that he clearly doesn't fit in to. 100% certain he is gone after this season.

What I don't want to see is this defense do the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

 

Peters is getting abused in man coverage this year more than in zone.  His coverage grade in man this year is 33.  Maybe rust?  Maybe playing it less is causing him to lose a feel for it?  But it's not affecting Humphrey or Hamilton, who are playing man coverage at the same percentage (give or take) and have 89 coverage grades in man.  He's graded 76 and 79 in 2020 and 2019, so it's a huge dropoff.

 

It doesn't really say much about whether he's playing press or not, but in general in man he's been really bad this year, and my eyes tell me that too.  He's gotten burned on jukes/double moves a lot more often than he did in 2020 or 2019.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Overall body of work and projection for the future. If his recent stats and performance aren't quite up to expectations, that's not necessarily disqualifying if you still expect him to be great moving forward, which I do.

And you have to strongly consider the alternatives as well. If he isn't quite as good as hoped and you end up overpaying the 7th or so best guy in the league by about 5%, that isn't that bad of a problem. Cowboys are doing that with Dak and don't seem too disappointed. If that's the downside, I'm much more comfortable with that potential than the downside of trying to find the next guy and hitting snake eyes there.

I'm still in favor of an extension, but disagree with the notion that you'd be rolling the dice and needing to hit snake eyes. 

The rest of the roster would be better and deeper. 

What you would need to hit imo, is adequate, hopefully with some upside. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

IM with you the way you with me yesterday. I guess I got to you first. You got me back through text. IM trolling like you trolling at this point.


But you're right there really isnt another side to this debate. There is no debate. With that said, Ive already told you the end of his next contract might not be pretty and obviously a SB title is far from guaranteed. But thats the case for all QBs. Even Mahomes

I truly wrestle with it because I love Lamar, but I’m tired of the mediocrity of this organization, and tired of the excuses surrounding said mediocrity. I go back and forth because I have an open mind. I dig in when I feel disrespected for having a different opinion.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I'm still in favor of an extension, but disagree with the notion that you'd be rolling the dice and needing to hit snake eyes. 

The rest of the roster would be better and deeper. 

What you would need to hit imo, is adequate, hopefully with some upside. 

Is Mac Jones adequate. How is that working out for NE, the best defensive NFL coach in history and a top 5 defense this year. Its amazing how many of you are dying to be mediocre or worse

[Mackus]

I'm still in favor of an extension, but disagree with the notion that you'd be rolling the dice and needing to hit snake eyes.

The rest of the roster would be better and deeper.
What you would need to hit imo, is adequate, hopefully with some upside.

Snakeyes was intended as the worst case downside (draft a guy and he's so bad he doesn't even see the end of the rookie deal), not the need for the upside.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I truly wrestle with it because I love Lamar, but I’m tired of the mediocrity of this organization, and tired of the excuses surrounding said mediocrity. I go back and forth because I have an open mind. I dig in when I feel disrespected for having a different opinion.

There is nothing mediocre right now. Thats where you are so far off. Mediocre was 2016-2017. I cant express enough how better positioned we are today then we were those two years. That was mediocrity that hadno real chanceof a SB. THis is a 7-4 team thats still the favorite to win their division despite multiple  ridiculous choke jobs. And bad luck. Look we can call it a choke job because it was but not falling on fumbles, securing game ending Int, missnaps. Certainly a bit of bad luck too.

[hallas]

I'm still in favor of an extension, but disagree with the notion that you'd be rolling the dice and needing to hit snake eyes. 

The rest of the roster would be better and deeper. 

What you would need to hit imo, is adequate, hopefully with some upside. 

 

I mean, a 5 year extension would give us at least 2 years with a cap hit lower than what we currently have.  A 6 year extension would give us 3 years, with a lot of flexibility as to when that 3rd year is.  With a rookie, you're looking at year 1 punted, and years 2-5 being possibly contending years IF everything breaks right.  But year 5 is going to have a cap hit bigger than the years I've mentioned, so it really doesn't count.

 

So with Lamar you get 2 years out of 5 with a reasonable cap number, with a quarterback that you know doesn't suck, but you also know his limitations.  You can also get 3 years out of 6 that fit this criteria if you sign him to a 6 year deal.

 

With a drafted QB you get 3 years out of 5 with a low cap number, and those 3 years the cap number is much, much lower than Lamar's low cap number years. but it's a huge coinflip whether he's going to suck, whether he's going to be Mahomes, or whether he's going to be another Lamar.

 

I think that the risk/reward here isn't really all that in favor of rolling the dice with a drafted QB.  All the cap space in the world doesn't mean a darn thing if your QB is terrible.  There would have to be a crazy draft class, and/or Lamar would have to suffer a major injury, for this to tilt in favor of the drafted quarterback.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Is Mac Jones adequate. How is that working out for NE, the best defensive NFL coach in history and a top 5 defense this year. Its amazing how many of you are dying to be mediocre or worse

 

I was the one calling for Jackson before he was drafted.  Part of that was belief in Jackson (I didn't think he would be MVP Y2, but did think you could build a playoff team with him), and part of it was wanting a QB on a rookie deal. 

 

I hate the hate Jackson gets, and frankly think his record and production speaks for itself.
He's done more than enough as a passer to have more respect as a passer than he gets. 

 

I also think (outburst yesterday aside... and a few other blips); he's a pretty mature kid who I generally really respect. He cares, he works hard. He wants to do right, and he ultimately is motivated by wins.  Easy to like and respect. 

 

That all said...   my primary concern would be giving a long-term deal to the guy when the majority of his value today and going forward is tied to his athleticism.  I don't see his athleticism just falling off a cliff, but I do wonder how long he's at this level, and wonder what his overall production looks like when he's a step slower. 

 

As I said, I still lean towards paying him. 

But I think any argument that says the Ravens couldn't build a winning team without him is wrong. 

 

I don't think every team has to look the same.  And if you give me a strong defense, strong special teams, strong running game... and a QB in the 15-24 range... I think you can win a lot of games. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I mean, a 5 year extension would give us at least 2 years with a cap hit lower than what we currently have.  A 6 year extension would give us 3 years, with a lot of flexibility as to when that 3rd year is.  With a rookie, you're looking at year 1 punted, and years 2-5 being possibly contending years IF everything breaks right.  But year 5 is going to have a cap hit bigger than the years I've mentioned, so it really doesn't count.

 

So with Lamar you get 2 years out of 5 with a reasonable cap number, with a quarterback that you know doesn't suck, but you also know his limitations.  You can also get 3 years out of 6 that fit this criteria if you sign him to a 6 year deal.

 

With a drafted QB you get 3 years out of 5 with a low cap number, and those 3 years the cap number is much, much lower than Lamar's low cap number years. but it's a huge coinflip whether he's going to suck, whether he's going to be Mahomes, or whether he's going to be another Lamar.

 

I think that the risk/reward here isn't really all that in favor of rolling the dice with a drafted QB.  All the cap space in the world doesn't mean a darn thing if your QB is terrible.  There would have to be a crazy draft class, and/or Lamar would have to suffer a major injury, for this to tilt in favor of the drafted quarterback.

And you are almost assuredly using any capital you get from trading Lamar to go get the rookie QB as early as you can in a draft. If you think the Ravens if needing a QB wouldve passed on Darnold or Zach Wilson or Josh Rosen, etc if that was the best QB available then you are mistaken. How far does that set you back. Thats worst case scenario of course but Kenny Pickett in the middle of the first does nothing for you either. Mac Jones in the middle of the first does nothing for you. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

Hates a strong word and a pretty ridiculous summation of what goes on here. We are talking about what it means to org overall, and their chances, when the huge cap hits come. At least I am. That’s the context of any of my Lamar commentary.

And agree to disagree 2035. This team has shown its true colors enough now that I’ll believe it’s who they are. You point out their bad luck, how bout the fact that they beat the Bengals, Browns and Bucs by a combined 10 points? They are the upper echelon of mediocre, but they’re still mediocre. But now we’re just getting into semantics. They aren’t winning a SB. I’d love to look like a fool on this. You think I already do. We’ll see.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Hates a strong word and a pretty ridiculous summation of what goes on here. We are talking about what it means to org overall, and their chances, when the huge cap hits come. At least I am. That’s the context of any of my Lamar commentary.

Lot of other places than here, and lot of other voices here than yours.  Jackson gets a ridiculous amount of hate, and it's not even debatable imo.