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Lamar - Extension?


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#1181 Ravens2006

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 01:28 PM

Harbaugh's overall record post Kubiak is 64-49, which includes going 2-4 after Flacco went down with the ACL and then 3-7 in games that Lamar hasn't started. If you want to include the games Lamar started but didn't finish, that makes that 3-7, 4-8. So Harbaugh has gone 5-11 without a starting quarterback.

I understand being frustrated with Harbaugh but to use the argument that he doesn't win when he doesn't have his starting QB playing is a poor one. Outside of Kyle Shanahan's voodoo in San Francisco, I would make an assumption that pretty much every head coach struggles without a starting caliber QB in the lineup (albeit, I'd like to do a deep dive to confirm). That's probably the reason why so many franchises turn over their coaching staffs every few years because they have crappy QB play.

Bottom line, any coach you bring in is going to have a tough time if the QB position is unstable.


I think they've underachieved WITH QBs like Flacco and Jackson personally. I pin the mediocrity of the team with Flacco, post Kubiak, on John's decisions to bring in Trestman and Mornhinweg and the style of offense they ran. That's John's ultimate responsibility.

Not advocating a coaching change every year or two. Far from it. John's been here 14 years now, it's okay to go a different route. The game day failings I see in Harbaugh are consistent and have spanned a LONG time.
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#1182 hallas

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 01:33 PM

I've definitely tilted.

I'd rather see Lamar traded vs. extended at this point.

My preferences would be:

- Sending Jackson to Houston... don't know if I can get their 1st and 12th overall, but that would be amazing... (Choice of Young or Stroud)

- A lesser deal for Green Bay to get Love... and moving Jackson wherever.

- A contract extension with Jackson.


I don't think you're getting first overall AND 12th overall. First overall is worth 3 mid round firsts. Maybe you'll get first overall and some lower picks. Maybe we can trade back into the 2nd round

#1183 Steve55

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 01:50 PM

He played 12 games last year. 
If he plays vs. the Bengals this week, he'll have played in 13 games this year... obviously 12 if not. 

 

That's got to have impact on the Ravens decision making. 

 

Lot of ESPN discussion this morning reading into Harbaugh's comments earlier this week, not sure if Jackson will be practicing or not. 

The ESPN Analysts suggesting Harbaugh believes Jackson is ready to play, but is holding himself out.

 

 

Someone on RSR posted about a Rich Eisen interview with Harbaugh saying Jackson could be playing weeks ago. Eisen said Jackson wouldn't play with a brace and wanted to wait to be fully healed.



#1184 Mackus

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 01:57 PM

Someone on RSR posted about a Rich Eisen interview with Harbaugh saying Jackson could be playing weeks ago. Eisen said Jackson wouldn't play with a brace and wanted to wait to be fully healed.

 

No way would Harbaugh have said something like that and it not be major news that we would have all seen.  There is a miscommunication somewhere in this game of telephone.


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#1185 bmore_ken

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 02:06 PM

Lamar stays and coaching staff goes... that's my top 12 preferences... :)

Same here. 



#1186 bmore_ken

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 02:09 PM

No way would Harbaugh have said something like that and it not be major news that we would have all seen.  There is a miscommunication somewhere in this game of telephone.

Good example why I put little credence into these "experts". Harbaugh is never that detailed about anything with the press. 



#1187 Steve55

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 02:43 PM

No way would Harbaugh have said something like that and it not be major news that we would have all seen.  There is a miscommunication somewhere in this game of telephone.

 

 

Harbaugh didn't say it Eisen did. Harbaugh said he was hoping Jackson would be back in a week. Don't know where Eisen heard it.



#1188 Mackus

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 02:47 PM

Harbaugh didn't say it Eisen did. Harbaugh said he was hoping Jackson would be back in a week. Don't know where Eisen heard it.

 

I like Rich Eisen but why do we care what he thinks about Lamar's status?  We don't seriously think that's a legit source for Ravens inside info, do we?  



#1189 PrimeTime

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 02:48 PM

I think they've underachieved WITH QBs like Flacco and Jackson personally. I pin the mediocrity of the team with Flacco, post Kubiak, on John's decisions to bring in Trestman and Mornhinweg and the style of offense they ran. That's John's ultimate responsibility.

Not advocating a coaching change every year or two. Far from it. John's been here 14 years now, it's okay to go a different route. The game day failings I see in Harbaugh are consistent and have spanned a LONG time.

 

I've come around to the idea that perhaps it is time to go in another direction at head coach but I just wanted to make the point that a head coach's record without their starting QB is not going to be stellar, any way you slice it.

 

And, at the end of the day, Harbaugh's nepotism when it comes to assistants and his undying loyalty to those assistants will either be his ouster or a black mark on his legacy.

 

The underachievement in the post SB era is an organization failure much more than a coaching failure, IMO. The discussions we've had about WR over the last couple of seasons are nothing new and have been going on for better than a decade. The lack of attention paid to the position, the lack of draft resources used, the veteran retreads brought in, etc.

 

Whether it's Ozzie's philosophy or just the organization's in general, they value defense above offense and utilize more resources in terms of draft capital and cap dollars on the defensive side of the ball. In a league that is slanted heavily toward the offense, this philosophy is no longer tenable and needs to change.


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#1190 makoman

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 02:50 PM

Harbaugh didn't say it Eisen did. Harbaugh said he was hoping Jackson would be back in a week. Don't know where Eisen heard it.

I really dislike that kind of rumor (not blasting you, more Eisen). Jackson could have played weeks ago according to who? Who on the team is talking about that to Eisen? And at what level? Certainly not 90%, IIRC he looked kinda gimpy in the video of him on the sideline vs. Atlanta. 80%? 50%? At what % should he be expected to play? 



#1191 bmore_ken

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 02:56 PM

I really dislike that kind of rumor (not blasting you, more Eisen). Jackson could have played weeks ago according to who? Who on the team is talking about that to Eisen? And at what level? Certainly not 90%, IIRC he looked kinda gimpy in the video of him on the sideline vs. Atlanta. 80%? 50%? At what % should he be expected to play? 

That's what confuses me, because the post says

a Rich Eisen interview with Harbaugh saying Jackson could be playing weeks ago. 



#1192 makoman

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 02:56 PM

It doesn't help that Harbaugh says stuff like "we'll just coach whoever's out there" and "when he feels like he's ready he'll be ready." Makes it look like the team is pissed at the player, and maybe they are, but it isn't necessary and drives fan sentiment negative IMO. Said the same stuff about Stanley, and that one actually worked out well I think with the player taking all the time he needed. 


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#1193 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 03:15 PM

It doesn't help that Harbaugh says stuff like "we'll just coach whoever's out there" and "when he feels like he's ready he'll be ready." Makes it look like the team is pissed at the player, and maybe they are, but it isn't necessary and drives fan sentiment negative IMO. Said the same stuff about Stanley, and that one actually worked out well I think with the player taking all the time he needed. 

I mean look at the difference in Dobbins since he made the decision to miss additional time with the knee scope. Night and day. I would hope Harbs and team would understand that. The greatest chance of injury exists when there's intense fatigue or when playing through injuries that haven't fully healed.


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#1194 Mackus

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 03:24 PM

It doesn't help that Harbaugh says stuff like "we'll just coach whoever's out there" and "when he feels like he's ready he'll be ready." Makes it look like the team is pissed at the player, and maybe they are, but it isn't necessary and drives fan sentiment negative IMO. Said the same stuff about Stanley, and that one actually worked out well I think with the player taking all the time he needed.

I gotta think that these comments are his annoyance with the media and being asked it constantly coming out and not his displeasure with players. He's always seemed to have a pretty strong rapport with his guys (some isolated incidents and fallings out notwithstanding), and if they thought he was calling them out as soft in the media I doubt he'd hold that sway.

I get why it sounds that way hearing it, and maybe that's his intent. But I doubt it.
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#1195 makoman

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 03:30 PM

I gotta think that these comments are his annoyance with the media and being asked it constantly coming out and not his displeasure with players. He's always seemed to have a pretty strong rapport with his guys (some isolated incidents and fallings out notwithstanding), and if they thought he was calling them out as soft in the media I doubt he'd hold that sway.

I get why it sounds that way hearing it, and maybe that's his intent. But I doubt it.


You’re probably right, players mostly seem to like him and they wouldn’t if they thought he was playing games in the media like that. People love to run with that stuff to paint narratives though and it contributes even if it isn’t Harbs’ intent. People still think Stanley is soft…

#1196 mdrunning

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 04:10 PM

There's also talk of a big offseason trade involving the Falcons and Ravens. Take it with a grain of salt. Atlanta isn't making the playoffs, so their rumor mill is in full offseason mode already. Have to have something to talk about.



#1197 Slidemaster

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 06:37 PM

There's also talk of a big offseason trade involving the Falcons and Ravens. Take it with a grain of salt. Atlanta isn't making the playoffs, so their rumor mill is in full offseason mode already. Have to have something to talk about.


What would that look like?

Ravens get Falcons 2023 and 2024 1st round picks along with Ridder (if they like him) and/or a 2023 2nd and 4th rounder?

#1198 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 07:33 PM

I've definitely tilted.

I'd rather see Lamar traded vs. extended at this point.

My preferences would be:

- Sending Jackson to Houston... don't know if I can get their 1st and 12th overall, but that would be amazing... (Choice of Young or Stroud)

- A lesser deal for Green Bay to get Love... and moving Jackson wherever.

- A contract extension with Jackson.

I havent tilted but Im listening. Has nothing to do with a lot of the other noise. For me its about durability
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#1199 makoman

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 07:39 PM

Last offseason I wanted a large extension. Today I want a large extension or a large trade (ie Watsonish, I don’t know). We’ll see where my wants go in a few months.
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#1200 Slidemaster

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 08:01 PM

I was open to trading Lamar before it was cool.

In all seriousness, I'm fine with a good trade haul or a large-yet-reasonable extension. I am not okay with what Lamar wants.




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