5723 replies to this topic

[Steve55]

I think 3/$153M full guarantee would be a pretty strong offer, similar in quality to what the Ravens reportedly offered but obviously a different structure.

No idea if Lamar's willing to settle for less than he's hoping for, or if he is whether he'd prefer a shorter full guarantee to a more typical 5-year deal which has similar guaranteed money at signing but with a possibility to earn another two years at high APY in years 4-5. Team would probably prefer the 5-year model for cap reasons.

 

 

I've said before, a 3 yr guaranteed deal set up as a 5 for cap purposes, with the option of ending or extending.

 

$51 million a season is pretty steep and will set up borrowing against it each yr,

[PrimeTime]

He craved the attention, but he also started 15 games 5 of his first 8 years. Two of those were his rookie year (didn’t start at first) and his suspension year, not at all injury prone.

I agree neither injury of Lamar’s is a concern in a vacuum and aren’t really a worry going forward, but I do now have concerns that he’s injury prone. One year gave me no worry, two in a row gives a bit. Not a ton mind you but every little thing matters when it’s 50M/year and over 200 guaranteed.

 

The other thing about Lamar is workload. He takes the normal hits a QB takes and then he's carried the ball 727 times in his 4ish seasons as a starter. While Jackson is generally good at avoiding flush contact, that's still the equivalent of an RB2 workload. Moving forward, will that mileage lead to more injuries, slower healing or an earlier breakdown than most upper tier QBs?

[weird-O]

The other thing about Lamar is workload. He takes the normal hits a QB takes and then he's carried the ball 727 times in his 4ish seasons as a starter. While Jackson is generally good at avoiding flush contact, that's still the equivalent of an RB2 workload. Moving forward, will that mileage lead to more injuries, slower healing or an earlier breakdown than most upper tier QBs?

The idea is to work on his passing game, and reduce his running. If I understand correctly, that's the approach Lamar has been pleading with the coaching staff to go with. But they just wanted to see him run. That, and the Ravens don't believe wide receivers are a valuable asset, like Peter Angelos didn't think pitchers are important to winning in baseball.  

[jamesdean]

The other thing about Lamar is workload. He takes the normal hits a QB takes and then he's carried the ball 727 times in his 4ish seasons as a starter. While Jackson is generally good at avoiding flush contact, that's still the equivalent of an RB2 workload. Moving forward, will that mileage lead to more injuries, slower healing or an earlier breakdown than most upper tier QBs?

What's the shelf life of a running back now?  3-4 years on average?  Some last a little longer, others less.  You might as well say Lamar is a running back since he carries the ball as much or more than our running backs do individually.  Odds are better than average that his elite, running ability will be declining in the next 2-3 years and he'll transition to a more traditional, pocket quarterback who occasionally will take off to pick up a first down.  But the days of 1,000 yards on the ground will be long gone  I think most of us here have always expected that to happen sooner or later.  What that means for Lamar is he either evolves into a top 5 passer to diversify his impact or he just becomes a very mediocre quarterback.  I'm not going to project that far into the future but its safe to say his best years as a runner are decidedly closer to ending than what me may want to accept. 

[jamesdean]

The idea is to work on his passing game, and reduce his running. If I understand correctly, that's the approach Lamar has been pleading with the coaching staff to go with. But they just wanted to see him run. That, and the Ravens don't believe wide receivers are a valuable asset, like Peter Angelos didn't think pitchers are important to winning in baseball.  

I'm not sure that was the prevailing agenda last year.  It probably was a combination of both Lamar and Roman trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.  As long as he has the ability to change a game with his legs, he needs to use them since it's probably not going to last much longer.  At some point, he'll be forced to become much more of a passer and thus lies the potential hazards. 

[Mackus]

What's the shelf life of a running back now?  3-4 years on average?  Some last a little longer, others less.  You might as well say Lamar is a running back since he carries the ball as much or more than our running backs do individually.  Odds are better than average that his elite, running ability will be declining in the next 2-3 years and he'll transition to a more traditional, pocket quarterback who occasionally will take off to pick up a first down.  But the days of 1,000 yards on the ground will be long gone  I think most of us here have always expected that to happen sooner or later.  What that means for Lamar is he either evolves into a top 5 passer to diversify his impact or he just becomes a very mediocre quarterback.  I'm not going to project that far into the future but its safe to say his best years as a runner are decidedly closer to ending than what me may want to accept. 

 

I think his best days as a runner may already behind him but his second and third best days as a runner are still gonna be better than basically anyone else in the history of the sport at the position.  Its not like he's gonna go from what he's been so far and suddenly turn into a guy who never escapes the pocket.

 

I think over the course of a 5-year deal we'll see the read-option or called QB run plays diminish to only a handful or so a game, but he's always going to be a problem in the pocket in terms of escaping pressure and trying to hit a receiver downfield in broken coverage or to take off for a scramble.  I'd agree he's probably not breaking 1000 yards every year any more, but he's still gonna be getting several hundred yards of rushing throughout the year and will still have the ability to take over key moments of a game with his legs if absolutely necessary.

 

And he's still only 26 years old.  I do think he's got multiple seasons left of being a athletic freak that can do amazing things on the field.  That his future freakdom might be slightly diminished from his early 20s doesn't make what he can still do any less useful to an offense.

[bmore_ken]

What's the shelf life of a running back now?  3-4 years on average?  Some last a little longer, others less.  You might as well say Lamar is a running back since he carries the ball as much or more than our running backs do individually. 

I don't agree with this since he's not plunging into linemen. He's generally running out of bounds on most of his runs. That's a whole different thing than running 20 times inside the tackles and getting slammed to the ground.

[hallas]

What's the shelf life of a running back now? 3-4 years on average? Some last a little longer, others less. You might as well say Lamar is a running back since he carries the ball as much or more than our running backs do individually. Odds are better than average that his elite, running ability will be declining in the next 2-3 years and he'll transition to a more traditional, pocket quarterback who occasionally will take off to pick up a first down. But the days of 1,000 yards on the ground will be long gone I think most of us here have always expected that to happen sooner or later. What that means for Lamar is he either evolves into a top 5 passer to diversify his impact or he just becomes a very mediocre quarterback. I'm not going to project that far into the future but its safe to say his best years as a runner are decidedly closer to ending than what me may want to accept.

He goes on, like, 6 designed runs a game, and the rest are scrambles and kneeldowns. What running back has that kind of load?

[jamesdean]

He goes on, like, 6 designed runs a game, and the rest are scrambles and kneeldowns. What running back has that kind of load?

Doesn't matter whether they're designed or not.  He's running with the ball and taking contact.  He's not always running out of bounds. 

[hallas]

Doesn't matter whether they're designed or not. He's running with the ball and taking contact. Some games more than Dobbins and Edwards.

Joey B takes more contact getting sacked 6 times a game. Using that as a basis for his wear and tear over other QBs is absurd.

[jamesdean]

I think his best days as a runner may already behind him but his second and third best days as a runner are still gonna be better than basically anyone else in the history of the sport at the position.  Its not like he's gonna go from what he's been so far and suddenly turn into a guy who never escapes the pocket.

 

I think over the course of a 5-year deal we'll see the read-option or called QB run plays diminish to only a handful or so a game, but he's always going to be a problem in the pocket in terms of escaping pressure and trying to hit a receiver downfield in broken coverage or to take off for a scramble.  I'd agree he's probably not breaking 1000 yards every year any more, but he's still gonna be getting several hundred yards of rushing throughout the year and will still have the ability to take over key moments of a game with his legs if absolutely necessary.

 

And he's still only 26 years old.  I do think he's got multiple seasons left of being a athletic freak that can do amazing things on the field.  That his future freakdom might be slightly diminished from his early 20s doesn't make what he can still do any less useful to an offense.

Like I said, we'll just have to see how his game evolves.  It could go either way in my opinion. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Lol. Lamar will still be a huge threat with his legs. Acting likehe is a RB who is gonna fall off a cliff is hilarious. If Zeke Elliot could be a QB hed still be dangerous. Do people think before they post.Yes, Lamar shouldnt be expected to be as explosive as he has been hes still gonna be super dangerous

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Like I said, we'll just have to see how his game evolves. It could go either way in my opinion.

No we dont have to wait and see. Short of a devestating injury Lamars running ability will continue to be a huge threat and asset. Even if the designed runs are less. Even if he has lost 2 steps. Its not even debateable. Teams arent gonn stop spying him and that threat will continue to help open up passing lanes

[mdrunning]

Regardless of whether or not Lamar's runs are predominantly from design or otherwise, running is considered a complementary skill for an NFL quarterback. Typically it fades with age and/or injury. The ability to hit the target has and always will be the most requisite ability for the position.

[jamesdean]

Lol. Lamar will still be a huge threat with his legs. Acting likehe is a RB who is gonna fall off a cliff is hilarious. If Zeke Elliot could be a QB hed still be dangerous. Do people think before they post.Yes, Lamar shouldnt be expected to be as explosive as he has been hes still gonna be super dangerous

Do you think before you go into full jerk mode? 

[bmore_ken]

Doesn't matter whether they're designed or not.  He's running with the ball and taking contact.  He's not always running out of bounds. 

Yet he's only been injured in the pocket?

[jamesdean]

No we dont have to wait and see. Short of a devestating injury Lamars running ability will continue to be a huge threat and asset. Even if the designed runs are less. Even if he has lost 2 steps. Its not even debateable. Teams arent gonn stop spying him and that threat will continue to help open up passing lanes

We'll see. 

[jamesdean]

Yet he's only been injured in the pocket?

Agreed but I'm talking about the accumulative effect of running as much as he does. 

[Steve55]

I'm not sure that was the prevailing agenda last year.  It probably was a combination of both Lamar and Roman trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.  As long as he has the ability to change a game with his legs, he needs to use them since it's probably not going to last much longer.  At some point, he'll be forced to become much more of a passer and thus lies the potential hazards. 

 

I went to every home game last season. 1st series they came out throwing thinking the D would stack the box. 3 plays and punt. Everyone in the stands, run the ball. Lamar is streaky. Has a nice drive, then throws a bad pass or 2. Look at the Tampa game. Tried to make him a thrower. 2nd half went back to more runs with some passes. 

 

Point being he's not a typical pocket passer. He has bad accuracy problems. Teams don't fear his passing, they fear his running.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

We'll see.

Hence why you should think before you post. Thinking hes gonna be non effective or a non threat like most aged RBs is just a horrible take