5723 replies to this topic

[hallas]

Not from the Ravens. And it seems like the other teams aren't looking to make that a new standard.

If you feel that there's no, or very limited, situations where teams would offer him a guaranteed deal then it sure seems like you're implying that his performance/health is secondary, and the owners' desire to prevent another Watson deal is the primary reason. Call it collusion, call it sound business logic, whatever.

[bmore_ken]

I felt the same way about my last post. I felt like I should take a shower, after defending them on that subject. 

I wouldn't say it's defending them. Let's be real, these guys didn't get insanely rich by making dumb decisions.

[bmore_ken]

I'd rather pay Lamar $50M than get a QB for free who isn't in the top 10 or 15 in the league.  

Meanwhile the team has a starting top 10-15 qb who couldn't finish two seasons in a row. We would clearly be different types of owners. You're not getting any bang for your buck if your $50M per player can't stay on the field.

[jamesdean]

I think the real shocker was the Falcons. They were in a good position to make him an offer the Ravens couldn't match, and had the need, too. 8 and next year's first is significantly less than previous QB trades.

If the Jets can't land Rodgers and are back to square one and STILL don't pursue Lamar, then I think it's pretty obvious that he's definitely being targeted as a STAY AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE player.  And if you want to use the word "collusion", so be it. 

[Mackus]

Meanwhile the team has a starting top 10-15 qb who couldn't finish two seasons in a row. We would clearly be different types of owners. You're not getting any bang for your buck if your $50M per player can't stay on the field.

I see no reason to think Lamar will miss any more time in the future than any other QB.

I'll buy slow healer as a critique, but that doesn't make him more likely to get injured in the first place. Neither does his style, IMO. I think he's just like any other QB. Might get hurt, might not. His past injuries certainly are not remotely the type of injuries that you'd expect any lingering effects. I don't feel any concern for Lamar missing games in '23 and beyond that I don't also feel for guys like Allen or Mahomes or Burrow.

[jamesdean]

I see no reason to think Lamar will miss any more time in the future than any other QB.

I'll buy slow healer as a critique, but that doesn't make him more likely to get injured in the first place. Neither does his style, IMO. I think he's just like any other QB. Might get hurt, might not. His past injuries certainly are not remotely the type of injuries that you'd expect any lingering effects. I don't feel any concern for Lamar missing games in '23 and beyond that I don't also feel for guys like Allen or Mahomes or Burrow.

I am concerned his injuries are going to start being a yearly problem.  Like you said, maybe not.  We'll see but Jimmy G. has proven pretty much every year that he can't play a full schedule and I don't see why this year is going to be any different. I don't know who the Raiders back-up quarterback is but he better stay prepared. 

[Mackus]

I am concerned his injuries are going to start being a yearly problem. Like you said, maybe not. We'll see but Jimmy G. has proven pretty much every year that he can't play a full schedule and I don't see why this year is going to be any different. I don't know who the Raiders back-up quarterback is but he better stay prepared.

I think Lamar has multiple injuries to go before he's near as unreliable as Garoppolo.

[weird-O]

If you feel that there's no, or very limited, situations where teams would offer him a guaranteed deal then it sure seems like you're implying that his performance/health is secondary, and the owners' desire to prevent another Watson deal is the primary reason. Call it collusion, call it sound business logic, whatever.

In that's the case, the league has been colluding against the NFLPA for decades. So why is it such a big deal now? Why wasn't anyone banging this drum 3 years ago, or 10 years ago? 

[bmore_ken]

I see no reason to think Lamar will miss any more time in the future than any other QB.

 

Name the starting qb that's missed 11 or 12 games the last two seasons, including a playoff game. 

[hallas]

In that's the case, the league has been colluding against the NFLPA for decades. So why is it such a big deal now? Why wasn't anyone banging this drum 3 years ago, or 10 years ago?

They needed a player to take this torch. Most good QBs in the past have been willing to cut deals early for guaranteed money now, and likely significantly less in the open market. Pretty much only QBs have this leverage, so that eliminates any other position.

I'm not going to call Lamar a bad person for being a more recalcitrant negotiator than previous star QBs. But it's certainly unfortunate for the Ravens that they draft a star QB only for him to be the most difficult negotiator of any QB in recent memory.

[weird-O]

They needed a player to take this torch. Most good QBs in the past have been willing to cut deals early for guaranteed money now, and likely significantly less in the open market. Pretty much only QBs have this leverage, so that eliminates any other position.

I'm not going to call Lamar a bad person for being a more recalcitrant negotiator than previous star QBs. But it's certainly unfortunate for the Ravens that they draft a star QB only for him to be the most difficult negotiator of any QB in recent memory.

That's a really good point. If the Union feels like the owners work in concert against them (in business practices) then Lamar is a well timed asset for their cause. 

 

Unfortunately for me, that would mean my belief in him as a team player would be dispelled, unless the Union is his team.  

[hallas]

Name the starting qb that's missed 11 or 12 games the last two seasons, including a playoff game.

That guy that got a guaranteed deal from the Browns? Also Tua missed 8 games over the past 2 seasons and the nature of his injuries present a significant injury risk going forward, yet people were ready to call Tua a better bet going forward than Lamar.

[Mackus]

Name the starting qb that's missed 11 or 12 games the last two seasons, including a playoff game.

It's irrelevant. I'm not interested in what happened in the past. I'm interested in trying to project what will happen in the future, as difficult as that is. History is a big part of that, but you ha e to contextualize it. Nothing about Lamar's injury history concerns me moving forward any moreso than any other typical QB. Two minor injuries doesn't make me think he's due for more and neither injury was the type that makes me think it'll change his physical capabilities moving forward (where a ACL or Achilles tear would).

I have bigger performance concerns than injury concerns.

[Hooded Viper]

I think Lamar has multiple injuries to go before he's near as unreliable as Garoppolo.

I agree with this he is like Brad Johnson where everything has to go absolutely 100% correct, and he has to be surrounded by the utmost talent in order to win a Super Bowl.

[Mackus]

Garoppolo might be the only QB that I would have any significant injury concerns with.  And I don't think he's a franchise guy anyways, so I'd have other reasons for not wanting to commit to him.

 

Tua's concussion concerns are grave just because of the potential for a next one to be a career-ender.

 

Prescott's had injuries in two of the past three years, one major, but I don't think he's particularly likely to have another.

 

Stafford's coming off an injury and had another big one earlier in his career.  Maybe there is concern with his age but not really.

 

Allen's banged up his throwing arm a few times, he doesn't usually miss games because of it but it impacts his play.  Not particularly concerned moving forward, at some point he may need UCL surgery and miss a year but he should bounce back after that even if he loses a bit of zip or precision.

 

Watson and Burrow have both torn ACLs.  They've seemingly recovered fully, so no forward-looking concern.  Brady had the same injury a long time ago, missed a year then was fine.

 

Rodgers broke his collarbone in both 2013 and 2017 (not sure if same one), that can be somethng that recurs once it goes the first time, but he's been fine since.

 

Luck had two major injuries in his 20s.  Not sure how much of a factor those were in his retirement.

[Mackus]

Roethlisberger was always good for suffering 1-2 injuries a year the team would leak was a risk of being a season ender and then he'd miss a game and be back right after.  He craved the drama.  Later in his career he started doing the same ruse in the offseason with whether or not he was going to retire.

[bmore_ken]

That guy that got a guaranteed deal from the Browns? Also Tua missed 8 games over the past 2 seasons and the nature of his injuries present a significant injury risk going forward, yet people were ready to call Tua a better bet going forward than Lamar.

Tua is not up for a contract renewal at $40-$50 per. The Browns are the Browns. I don't know why I have to keep repeating that. 

[makoman]

Roethlisberger was always good for suffering 1-2 injuries a year the team would leak was a risk of being a season ender and then he'd miss a game and be back right after. He craved the drama. Later in his career he started doing the same ruse in the offseason with whether or not he was going to retire.

He craved the attention, but he also started 15 games 5 of his first 8 years. Two of those were his rookie year (didn’t start at first) and his suspension year, not at all injury prone.

I agree neither injury of Lamar’s is a concern in a vacuum and aren’t really a worry going forward, but I do now have concerns that he’s injury prone. One year gave me no worry, two in a row gives a bit. Not a ton mind you but every little thing matters when it’s 50M/year and over 200 guaranteed.

[hallas]

Tua is not up for a contract renewal at $40-$50 per. The Browns are the Browns. I don't know why I have to keep repeating that. 

 

You didn't limit this to quarterbacks that were up for contract renewal.  He's eligible for a new contract now, so we'll have to see where it takes us.

 

I personally think the Browns are the Browns because they gave this contract to a serial sex assaulter and waived their right to cancel the contract for cause on account of those allegations.  Not because they signed him to a guaranteed deal at all.

[bmore_ken]

You didn't limit this to quarterbacks that were up for contract renewal.  He's eligible for a new contract now, so we'll have to see where it takes us.

 

I personally think the Browns are the Browns because they gave this contract to a serial sex assaulter and waived their right to cancel the contract for cause on account of those allegations.  Not because they signed him to a guaranteed deal at all.

My bad for not making that clear about consecutive injury seasons.The Browns have made some of the dumbest qb decisions in NFL history. I don't even care about Watson's allegations because that's all they are. My concern would be he's done nothing on the field to warrant a guaranteed contract.