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#21 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 02:35 PM

Oats is in a good position where he can just wait for a blue blood job to open up. Given the time he spent in the region, wouldn't be surprised if he'd jump at the chance to replace Boeheim in Syracuse.

This is what the Turgeon era has done. There's no excuse for Syracuse being a better job than Maryland. That's ridiculous.


“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

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#22 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 02:42 PM

This is what the Turgeon era has done. There's no excuse for Syracuse being a better job than Maryland. That's ridiculous.

 

Some of that is just me spitballing that Oats might like Syracuse more because of the years he spent at Buffalo, and his familiarity with the area. I'm not sure I'd place them in the blue blood category.

 

If you look at the results over the past decade, Syracuse has had more success once they get in the tournaments than MD, but they've had their down years too, not to mention NCAA infractions that led to vacated wins. Still, all things being equal I'd put Syracuse a little bit higher on the totem pole than MD.



#23 Mackus

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 02:48 PM

Syracuse is an equal job.  Same tier program, IMO.  Whether Maryland is above or Syracuse is above is a short-term thing and not really relevant.  Aside from proximity to a major city, they are pretty close to identical.



#24 glenn__davis

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 03:20 PM

I think if you asked unbiased basketball fans the vast majority would put Syracuse over MD.  I don't think it's that way and I don't think it SHOULD be that way, but I think that's pretty easily the perception right now.



#25 hallas

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 03:29 PM

This is what the Turgeon era has done. There's no excuse for Syracuse being a better job than Maryland. That's ridiculous.


I don't know why you'd think this. They have a lot more final 4 appearances, their championship was more recent, and their legendary coach is still coaching (and coaching well.) A large percentage of their legacy is tied to Boeheim but I don't think that takes away from the prestige that he's built into the program.
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#26 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 03:40 PM

This gets very subjective.   

You'd have to do something which gave points to all-time relevancy, current relevancy, fanbases, markets, facilities, conferences, recruiting footprint, support from the University leadership, etc...

CBS did their ranking programs all-time last year which we discussed then:
https://www.cbssport...ms-of-all-time/

 

MD was 31st all-time
https://www.cbssport...time-nos-50-26/

 

But that ranking isn't exactly apples-to-apples with what are the best programs right now... or ie most coveted jobs...

For me, I look at it something like this: 

 

 

Programs clearly better than MD: 

Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, 

 

Programs currently better than MD: 
Gonzaga , Michigan, Michigan State, Virginia, Baylor

 

Similar Tier Programs:

Syracuse, Indiana, Ohio State, Florida, Arizona... 

 

(You could probably name 15-25 similar tier programs... and depending on the exact criteria used, and the year... MD could be anywhere on that list 1-25 of the similar tier programs.) 

 

Quick additional notes....

- Indiana is a blueblood historically, but they aren't in that current circle. 

 

- Baylor most years now would be a similar tier program, but right now... have to be looked at-least a notch above. 



#27 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 03:45 PM

I think if you asked unbiased basketball fans the vast majority would put Syracuse over MD.  I don't think it's that way and I don't think it SHOULD be that way, but I think that's pretty easily the perception right now.

 

I think they're both kind of in that second tier of programs, but right now Syracuse is at the upper end of that tier, while MD is at the bottom end, based on Syracuse having better tournament results and a HOF coach. It's something that could change, if MD ever gets its act together, and once Boeheim retires if his replacement struggles.


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#28 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 04:00 PM

I don't know why you'd think this. They have a lot more final 4 appearances, their championship was more recent, and their legendary coach is still coaching (and coaching well.) A large percentage of their legacy is tied to Boeheim but I don't think that takes away from the prestige that he's built into the program.

Because we replaced our legendary coach with Mark Turgeon who has failed to continue to build this programs legacy. 


“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

Mike Elias


#29 BaltBird 24

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 04:04 PM

To he fair, Gary did a pretty good job tearing down the legacy toward the end of his reign. He had one last blip during the Vasquez era, but it's not like he left it how he had it in the late 90's early 00's.

#30 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 04:08 PM

To he fair, Gary did a pretty good job tearing down the legacy toward the end of his reign. He had one last blip during the Vasquez era, but it's not like he left it how he had it in the late 90's early 00's.

Regardless of his results, he left the program in perfect condition for the right hire to come in and take it to new heights. Instead, we got Turgeon. Who, in his defense has been at least OK by any objective measure, and hasn't at all embarrassed us with any scandals. We could've done worse, we needed to do a lot better IMO.


“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

Mike Elias


#31 BaltBird 24

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 04:10 PM

Regardless of his results, he left the program in perfect condition for the right hire to come in and take it to new heights. Instead, we got Turgeon. Who, in his defense has been at least OK by any objective measure, and hasn't at all embarrassed us with any scandals. We could've done worse, we needed to do a lot better IMO.


Yup. Could've done way worse than Turgeon, but should've done better. Brought all the talent possible, won plenty enough, but almost always fell way short of expectations in the end.

#32 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 04:16 PM

Yeah, Turgeon hasn't done any sort of irreparable harm. If he left today I don't think any prospective coach would view MD any lesser than they would've back when he took over (unless someone thinks the Big Ten move is a knock, but that's obviously not on Turgeon). He's simply underachieved relevant to the pretty good talent he has recruited....ironically the exact opposite of why they declined in Gary's latter seasons.



#33 hallas

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 05:47 PM

Because we replaced our legendary coach with Mark Turgeon who has failed to continue to build this programs legacy.


Yeah, but their legendary coach is quite a bit more accomplished than ours was. The main advantage that Maryland has is that they've built competitive teams under multiple coaches. But the fact that they still get an afterglow from Boeheim props them up a lot.

#34 hallas

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 05:49 PM

Would you take Sean Miller's performance, and the violations that went along with it? I'm kind of torn about it.

#35 BSLZackKiesel

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 05:55 PM


Would you take Sean Miller's performance, and the violations that went along with it? I'm kind of torn about it.

No, and Maryland wouldn’t either.

There are enough coaches out there that we can find one who can coach well and not have a past riddled with scandals.
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#36 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 06:38 PM

Would you take Sean Miller's performance, and the violations that went along with it? I'm kind of torn about it.

It seems more and more that what went down was just normal. But not a fan anymore, he’s shady.

BTW, Maryland would’ve fired him immediately. I definitely believe that. Also, Miller has generally failed to get the most out of his talent.

“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

Mike Elias


#37 hallas

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 07:18 PM

It seems more and more that what went down was just normal. But not a fan anymore, he’s shady.

BTW, Maryland would’ve fired him immediately. I definitely believe that. Also, Miller has generally failed to get the most out of his talent.

So I was asking if you'd still consider Sean Miller's tenure a success if he did what he did at Maryland. Not whether you'd hire him now. I agree he would have been fired immediately.

#38 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 09:38 PM


So I was asking if you'd still consider Sean Miller's tenure a success if he did what he did at Maryland. Not whether you'd hire him now. I agree he would have been fired immediately.

Ahh, that’s tough. I guess not voluntarily or knowingly. But going in not knowing all things equal, I’d have vastly enjoyed these past several years with Miller over Turgeon.

“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

Mike Elias


#39 Ravens2006

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 10:45 PM

Enfield would be an interesting move. And gratuitous crowd shots of Mrs. Enfield could be a plus...

#40 Mike B

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 12:20 PM

Whoever runs the best offense.

Which would be great after not having an offense for 11 years.


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