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#61 hallas

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 07:35 PM

Who do those teams play out of conference? I always read that Coppin's athletic department revenue is such that they have to use most of their non-con schedule to go play power-level programs just to get the money they need to keep their other sports funded. Maybe times have changed.

 

From what I can tell (I looked at Coppin and 2 other top programs in the conference) it looks like they typically schedule between 3-6 P5 or decently high quality opponents (I'm including mid-majors that have had recent success like Loyola-Chicago.) But because they only play 16 conference games they're free to schedule more OOC games, and they typically schedule around 15 or 16 of them.  Those extra 5 or 6 games are usually against top-tier opponents, but the remaining 10 are  against smaller programs.

 

So a good program in MEAC usually gets either 0 or 1 win against a top tier program, and then splits the portion of their OOC schedule versus small programs, while getting at least 12 wins in conference play.  That is usually good for 18+ wins.



#62 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 07:44 PM

From what I can tell (I looked at Coppin and 2 other top programs in the conference) it looks like they typically schedule between 3-6 P5 or decently high quality opponents (I'm including mid-majors that have had recent success like Loyola-Chicago.) But because they only play 16 conference games they're free to schedule more OOC games, and they typically schedule around 15 or 16 of them.  Those extra 5 or 6 games are usually against top-tier opponents, but the remaining 10 are  against smaller programs.

 

So a good program in MEAC usually gets either 0 or 1 win against a top tier program, and then splits the portion of their OOC schedule versus small programs, while getting at least 12 wins in conference play.  That is usually good for 18+ wins.

 

OK, for some reason I was under the impression Coppin played more of those P5 programs than other MEAC schools because they were more in need of the money. Either way, we seem to be in agreement on the main point: Juan Dixon has no business being the next head coach at MD.



#63 mweb08

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 07:45 PM

The best teams in the MEAC get to 17-20 wins regularly. Thats where he needs to be at. They go like 12-4 or 13-3 in conference play and about 6-10 in NC play. There's usually at least a few bottom feeders on the NC schedule that he can draw from - it's not like they have 15 games vs top-50 teams.


Just reading along here, but not terribly invested, but if they do in fact go 12-4 or 13-3 in conference, doesn't that make them one of the best teams in the conference?

#64 hallas

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 07:47 PM

Just reading along here, but not terribly invested, but if they do in fact go 12-4 or 13-3 in conference, doesn't that make them one of the best teams in the conference?

 

Coppin State doesn't do that.  The best teams in the conference do.  Coppin State has been around 8-10 wins in conference and anywhere from single digit wins overall to low-teens.  But if you want to show you're ready for a major program, then I think you have to show you can win in the MEAC first.



#65 mweb08

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 07:50 PM

I say take your shot.

Don't play it safe. Someone like Turgeon is good enough to keep the job a long time, but in the process takes the program down a notch or two. I'd rather take a risk on an up and comer that you feel has a big upside over a solid fifty something year old guy or a higher level coach pushing 70.

#66 mweb08

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 07:52 PM

Coppin State doesn't do that. The best teams in the conference do. Coppin State has been around 8-10 wins in conference and anywhere from single digit wins overall to low-teens. But if you want to show you're ready for a major program, then I think you have to show you can win in the MEAC first.


Fair, but I hope you can see how someone that doesn't pay attention to what Coppin State does (me) would think they were winning 12-13 games in conference based on your words.

#67 Mackus

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 07:53 PM

Let's just use the actual results.

 

Dixon has gone 5-11, 7-9, 7-9, and 8-4 last season which was good for T-1st in their division but lost in the conference tourney.  MEAC schedule was very weird last season, split into two divisions to reduce traveling due to covid.



#68 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 08:00 PM

Let's just use the actual results.

 

Dixon has gone 5-11, 7-9, 7-9, and 8-4 last season which was good for T-1st in their division but lost in the conference tourney.  MEAC schedule was very weird last season, split into two divisions to reduce traveling due to covid.

 

My point about Dixon not being ready is that even with Coppin's improvement in-conference, the MEAC is a bottom-tier D1 conference, and I think it's too big a leap to go from there to a place with the expectations of MD. Juan would need several years somewhere else, either as a HC at a mid-major or the top assistant at a high-level P5 program before I'd consider him.



#69 hallas

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 08:03 PM

Fair, but I hope you can see how someone that doesn't pay attention to what Coppin State does (me) would think they were winning 12-13 games in conference based on your words.


I wasn't annoyed at you or anything, just clarifying my original comments. 😁

#70 hallas

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 08:07 PM

I say take your shot.

Don't play it safe. Someone like Turgeon is good enough to keep the job a long time, but in the process takes the program down a notch or two. I'd rather take a risk on an up and comer that you feel has a big upside over a solid fifty something year old guy or a higher level coach pushing 70.


I think Kevin Willard is the "safe" young coach pick that we can realistically pry away, and someone like Kim English (George Mason) is the home run swing that could set us up for 30 years if it works, or blow the program into oblivion if it doesn't.

 

Or we can try and lure away Oats.  I really don't think it's happening, but crazier things have happened.



#71 hallas

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 08:20 PM

My point about Dixon not being ready is that even with Coppin's improvement in-conference, the MEAC is a bottom-tier D1 conference, and I think it's too big a leap to go from there to a place with the expectations of MD. Juan would need several years somewhere else, either as a HC at a mid-major or the top assistant at a high-level P5 program before I'd consider him.

 

We're just preaching to the choir here, but I don't really think that going from Coppin to the Terps is such a crazy leap, if he had really good success at Coppin.  Nate Oats was coaching at University of Buffalo and took won tourney games 2 years in a row before he went to Alabama.  I'd probably put the MAC on more or less the same level as MEAC.  At least they're not so dissimilar.  But your bar for success at lower tier conferences is pretty high given the quality of competition.  And he's clearly not there.

 

By contrast, Levelle Moton has been coaching at North Carolina Central University for 12 years, and he's won 17 games or more for 8 of those seasons, including 4 seasons with 22+ wins.  If Dixon had this level of success I'd consider him for sure.



#72 1970

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 09:04 PM

I just saw this on the Wikipedia page for Kim English:

 

In April 2022 it was announced that he would be the next head coach of the University of Maryland.

 

https://en.wikipedia...h_(basketball)#



#73 Chris B

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 09:31 PM

Kim English would be a great hire.

#74 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 09:49 PM


If the Terps are not paying the remainder of Turgeon's 2021 salary the buyout number is almost identical to what it was before he signed the extension. But I actually think that Turgeon chose to leave once they gave him his buyout. He was underachieving and he knew it. He gets some time to recharge and gets first dibs on any new HC jobs for next year. Also he doesn't have to have the remainder of this season on his record, and there are (unconfirmed) reports that his family was getting harassed. I think Evans had buy-in from boosters to can him at the end of season and Turgeon decided to shorten that time frame.

Ridiculous if his family was getting harassed. Unfortunately it would happen a lot of places. Undoubtedly does happen at a lot of places.

#75 BSLZackKiesel

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 09:52 PM

Ridiculous if his family was getting harassed. Unfortunately it would happen a lot of places. Undoubtedly does happen at a lot of places.

There's a guy on Twitter who's been going after one of Turgeon's sons for over a year now, so yeah it was definitely happening. For the life of me, I'll never understand people like that. They shouldn't even be allowed to call themselves "fans".


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#76 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 09:55 PM

There's a guy on Twitter who's been going after one of Turgeon's sons for over a year now, so yeah it was definitely happening. For the life of me, I'll never understand people like that. They shouldn't even be allowed to call themselves "fans".


I’m not the blame social media for everything type, but how does Twitter let someone get away with that for over a year?



#77 Mike B

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 10:35 PM

Kim English would be a great hire.

I mentioned when Maryland played them, that English fit Maryland and could be a candidate.  He has exactly 8 games as a HC.  That would take a leap of faith for Maryland to hire him.


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#78 hallas

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 10:47 PM

Another possibility mentioned is Mark Pope at BYU. Going to the big 12 but they're not there yet, and Pope is clearly not staying at BYU for the rest of his career.

#79 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 11:16 PM

I think Odom or Enfield are top of my list at the moment. Long way to go before this decision will be made though. Don't love the tempo at either program, but the results are hard to argue with.

English is definitely intriguing as well, but I think Maryland could get the same upside without the risk.

#80 hallas

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 11:36 PM

I think Odom or Enfield are top of my list at the moment. Long way to go before this decision will be made though. Don't love the tempo at either program, but the results are hard to argue with.

English is definitely intriguing as well, but I think Maryland could get the same upside without the risk.

 

If we hire Odom we'll never lose to the cavaliers, right? :D


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