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#141 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 11:36 AM

He wound up signing a 3/105.3 and went for the AAV with the opt-outs.

 

He had no market after the CBA was completed. He's going to be disappointed.

 

Yeah, I misread bb-ref.  For some reason, they had 2023 and 2024 listed twice.



#142 Mackus

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 11:37 AM

Does anyone else think Correa is over rated.  He is a good player, but not in a class with a guy like Manny.  JMO.  5/125 maybe light, but not the insult some think.  

 

I think MLB has a pretty different view of Correa than you do.  Twins just gave him 3/$105M, and he's gonna opt out of the final 2/$70M and go get a bigger deal (longer, not higher per year).

 

I think he's gonna get twice the $125M you mention.  Hell that offer probably doesn't even land Swanson. 

 

I prefer Manny when he was a FA (and still do today), but Correa is right there.  He's not as young as Manny was when he hit free agency, but he's a better hitter.  He's also a SS and Manny was a 3B.  Both regarded as top-end defenders, though quantifying that is difficult.  If we could pick one to have moving forward, I'd take Manny, but that's not an option anymore.

 

Manny had a 121 OPS+ and 34 career WAR when he hit free agency at Age 26.

Correa had a 127 OPS+ and 34 career WAR when he hit free agency last year at Age 27.

Correa has a 129 OPS+ and 39 career WAR when he'll hit free agency this offseason at Age 28.

 

The age could keep his contract at something shorter than the 10 years Manny got.  Though my guess is he gets 9- or 10-years since that's where general baseball contract inflation seems to be taking us.



#143 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 11:40 AM

I think MLB has a pretty different view of Correa than you do.  Twins just gave him 3/$105M, and he's gonna opt out of the final 2/$70M and go get a bigger deal (longer, not higher per year).

 

I think he's gonna get twice the $125M you mention.

 

He's not as young as Manny was when he hit free agency, but he's a better hitter.  He's also a SS and Manny was a 3B.  Both regarded as top-end defenders, though quantifying that is difficult.  If we could pick one to have moving forward, I'd take Manny, but that's not an option anymore.

 

Manny had a 121 OPS+ and 34 career WAR when he hit free agency at Age 26.

Correa had a 127 OPS+ and 34 career WAR when he hit free agency last year at Age 27.

Correa has a 129 OPS+ and 39 career WAR when he'll hit free agency this offseason at Age 28.

 

The age could keep his contract at something shorter than the 10 years Manny got.  Though my guess is he gets 9- or 10-years since that's where general baseball contract inflation seems to be taking us.

I'd take Correa anyway. Plays a more premium position and I soured on Manny his last year when it was me me me.



#144 dude

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 11:56 AM

I'd take Correa anyway. Plays a more premium position and I soured on Manny his last year when it was me me me.

 

So why don't you think Correa is "me me me"?



#145 CantonJester

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 12:16 PM

Same answer. 

 

I could hypothesize some examples of their thinking.  You yourself suggested a reason they may had not tried to sign him even if they thought he had quality time left.  But frankly we don't need to know the reason to be able to say that they very well could have still expected plenty of good production remaining from Correa but decided against a max dollar, long-term extension for other reasons.  

 

I'm not saying what I think the Astros thought about him. I'm saying that "they didn't think he had many good years left" isn't a conclusion that you can draw from the simple fact that they didn't sign him.  There are lots of other factors involved that could have driven the decision.  Did the Orioles not think Manny Machado had several good seasons left when they let him go?

 

It was reported that Correa’s back was a driving concern of teams considering signing him to a longterm deal. Some teams were even wondering if he would be willing to move from SS to 3B. 

 

I’ve no idea why the Orioles didn’t commit $ to Manny Machado. It probably had to do with the people in charge who felt Nelson Cruz wasn’t worth a four year deal?



#146 Mackus

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 12:24 PM

It was reported that Correa’s back was a driving concern of teams considering signing him to a longterm deal. Some teams were even wondering if he would be willing to move from SS to 3B. 

 

 

Ok.  Still the same answer:

 

 I'm saying that "they didn't think he had many good years left" isn't a conclusion that you can draw from the simple fact that they didn't sign him.  



#147 CantonJester

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 12:36 PM

Ok.  Still the same answer:

 

Teams that actually spend money on their product have evaluated Carlos Correa six ways to Sunday. They’ve evaluated that he is not worth the risk.



#148 Mackus

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 12:37 PM

Teams that actually spend money on their product have evaluated Carlos Correa six ways to Sunday. They’ve evaluated that he is not worth the risk.

 

Ok, sure.  Nobody will spend much on him this offseason.  Should mean the O's can get him for a great price!



#149 CantonJester

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 12:48 PM

Ok, sure.  Nobody will spend much on him this offseason.  Should mean the O's can get him for a great price!

 

I don’t think you’re crazy enough to think the O’s have a real need for a guy like Correa, but if you are:

 

are you prepared to flip Gunnar in a package for a TOR starter? 



#150 Mackus

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 01:37 PM

I don’t think you’re crazy enough to think the O’s have a real need for a guy like Correa, but if you are:

 

are you prepared to flip Gunnar in a package for a TOR starter? 

 

What's crazy about wanting a 130 OPS+ infielder to add to this team?  I'd absolutely push hard to sign one of the FA SS.  I prefer Correa but also would be thrilled with Turner or Bogaerts. Less enthusiastic about Swanson, but would take him.  If they're open to it, I like the idea of Turner at 2B or Bogaerts at 3B.  There are lots of ways the O's could go about improving the offense, they don't have to sign one of these guys to have a good offseason, but I think that any of the top FA SS could be the key piece of a good plan to do so and that's the route I'd pursue.

 

No, I probably wouldn't trade Gunnar for a SP unless its to get a young and very long-tenured one like McClanahan.


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#151 CantonJester

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 11:14 PM

What's crazy about wanting a 130 OPS+ infielder to add to this team?  I'd absolutely push hard to sign one of the FA SS.  I prefer Correa but also would be thrilled with Turner or Bogaerts. Less enthusiastic about Swanson, but would take him.  If they're open to it, I like the idea of Turner at 2B or Bogaerts at 3B.  There are lots of ways the O's could go about improving the offense, they don't have to sign one of these guys to have a good offseason, but I think that any of the top FA SS could be the key piece of a good plan to do so and that's the route I'd pursue.

 

No, I probably wouldn't trade Gunnar for a SP unless its to get a young and very long-tenured one like McClanahan.

 

I think the concerns re: Correa have merit. If you can get him on a 3-4 year deal that includes player options (teams really need to learn to embrace this rather than NTCs), then go for it. 

 

Obviously they could use another power source, but IMO they don't need to bolster the middle of their rotation. Go get Verlander or Rodon to slot in as the #1. 

 

I know O's fans are bummed they're eliminated (assuming SEA wins again), but this season was the best the O's could've realistically hoped for. They're back, Adley's the real deal, and the unbalanced schedule is soon to be history. 



#152 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 09:00 AM

So why don't you think Correa is "me me me"?

He may well be. But I didn't watch him do so as an Oriole like I did with Manny.



#153 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 20 October 2022 - 02:06 PM

Was not named as a gold glove finalist (Bogaerts, Correa, Pena).



#154 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 20 October 2022 - 02:11 PM

Was not named as a gold glove finalist (Bogaerts, Correa, Pena).

Bogaerts is a poor to mediocre defender isnt he??



#155 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 20 October 2022 - 02:12 PM

Bogaerts is a poor to mediocre defender isnt he??

 

He hits good.


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#156 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 20 October 2022 - 02:35 PM

 
Jorge Mateo was not named a gold glove finalist despite leading the AL in defensive value AND outs above average among shortstops. Mateo also ranked 2nd in DRS per @fangraphs with 14. Xander Bogaerts, a finalist, had 4.


#157 BobPhelan

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Posted 20 October 2022 - 02:36 PM

Ridiculous

#158 Mike B

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Posted 20 October 2022 - 09:36 PM

I guess the Orioles are still below the radar.  It is hard to believe Mateo is not a top 3.


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#159 Mackus

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Posted 26 October 2022 - 02:30 PM

https://blogs.fangra...d-a-gold-glove/


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#160 mdrunning

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Posted 26 October 2022 - 03:22 PM

Ramon Urias was named as a finalist at third, however.

 

This probably raises his trade value if Gunnar is going to take over third next season. Urias is out of options, so he can't be sent down to get playing time and be at the ready in case someone else goes down with an injury.

 

Juan Soto, for reasons known to, well, someone, was named an NL finalist in right field despite being 39th out of 39 in OAA.






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