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Jorge Mateo


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#81 Mackus

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 03:34 PM

Mateo's role should be as a super util guy. Get him playing 2B and 3B and he's a decent bench guy a few times a week. If he gets his OPS+ near 100 all the better. He's not the starter on a team that expects to win 100 games though. Not nearly enough upside in that bat. 

 

I'm a bit confused by your wording...do you think if that Mateo got his OPS+ near 100 that he still isn't good enough to be a starter even on a 100-win team?  He'd probably be something like 4 WAR if he could hit like that.  The Yankees and Astros have lesser players than that at SS and they'll likely both win 100 games this year.



#82 Mackus

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 03:36 PM

It's supposedly liftoff from here so spend money on 2-4 upgrades rather than worrying about everyone being a great value for ownership. 

 

If they're a great value for ownership, they should be a good value in trade as well.

 

That said, Mountcastle isn't the primary place I'm looking to upgrade.  If we can I'd do it, I certainly wouldn't turn down Jose Abreu or Anthony Rizzo because we have Mountcastle in the fold.  



#83 mweb08

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 03:56 PM

If they're a great value for ownership, they should be a good value in trade as well.

 

That said, Mountcastle isn't the primary place I'm looking to upgrade.  If we can I'd do it, I certainly wouldn't turn down Jose Abreu or Anthony Rizzo because we have Mountcastle in the fold.  

 

Sure. Trading a couple of these guys makes sense if they're going to upgrade upon them. 

 

I previously suggested the possibility of trading Mountcastle instead of Mancini because his value should be higher.

 

I'm fine with keeping Mountcastle or dealing him. 1B certainly doesn't have to be where they upgrade, but it should be under consideration just like the other infield spots and corner OF. I like Mateo better than Mountcastle and I like Mountcastle better than Urias and Hays. Of course, there are plenty of other factors to consider as mentioned. 


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#84 CantonJester

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 05:18 PM

I'm a bit confused by your wording...do you think if that Mateo got his OPS+ near 100 that he still isn't good enough to be a starter even on a 100-win team?  He'd probably be something like 4 WAR if he could hit like that.  The Yankees and Astros have lesser players than that at SS and they'll likely both win 100 games this year.

 

I backloaded my phrasing. I like Mateo. IMO, he doesn't have the upside with his bat to justify his OPS ranging where it would likely be as a starter. The Yankees have a stopgap at SS (after the Gleyber experience failed) until Volpe arrives. As for Houston? I think that speaks to just how little they wanted Carlos Correa (back issues) on a longterm deal.



#85 McNulty

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 06:41 PM

Sign one of the 4 FA SS.


With all the MI depth in the minors?

@fuzydunlop


#86 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 06:47 PM

With all the MI depth in the minors?


Yeah. I prefer Westburg at 2nd.  Henderson 3rd.    Not worried about blocking Oritz. Not worried about signing someone now, while we wait several years for Holiday. 

 

Mayo, Kjerstad, Norby, Prieto, Rom, Haskin...  I'd consider packaging some of them for a starter.  That said, don't feel any pressure to move them...  and can easily envision Mayo, Norby, Rom in the Majors at some point in '23.



#87 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 06:49 PM

I mean at least Turner, Correa, and Bogaerts are arguably the 3 best bats regardless of position on the FA market. Still dont want to go that route but I'm good with it for that reason. Swanson is just asking for trouble. 



#88 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 06:58 PM

I'll gladly take Swanson. 

Go in, be aggressive early... try and get him while everyone is fixated on the others.  Durable, athletic, good defensive player, adds to the lineup. Will take less years. 



#89 Mackus

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:00 PM

I'll gladly take him, too, but strongly prefer all of the others for what I expect everyone will cost. 10/$300M for Correa is better than 8/$200M for Swanson, IMO. 6/$100M for Swanson is no longer the pricetag.  If it is, then sure, but I really doubt it.

If I was more confident that this season wasn't a career year I'd consider him more strongly. I'll listen to arguments for why it's not and he should be expected to hit closer to this moving forward.



#90 Mackus

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:22 PM

Didn't realize how much Swanson had struggled recently.  Sub-700 OPS since the All-Star Break and down to "only" a 118 OPS+ for the year after he was way higher than that early on.  Still a career-best for him by a wide margin, in fact the only 100+ full season, but still not the 130ish season that Correa, Bogaerts, and Turner put up with regularity.  That probably makes the 8/$200M I mentioned above too much, but I still think it'll take well more than 6/$100M and I'd prefer any of the other guys for twice as much.



#91 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:37 PM

I'll gladly take Swanson.

Go in, be aggressive early... try and get him while everyone is fixated on the others. Durable, athletic, good defensive player, adds to the lineup. Will take less years.

You just described Jorge Mateo minus the last part. Paying him whatever it is he is going to take isnt worth a little better offense. And Mateo's speed offsets a tiny bit of that anyway. Focus any position player payroll at 1b/DH, and COF. Its the easiest and least costly. We also need left handed bats not RH bats.

#92 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:43 PM

You just described Jorge Mateo minus the last part. Paying him whatever it is he is going to take isnt work a little better offense. And Mateo's speed offsets a tiny bit of that anyway


That's 100% right. The difference is that last part.... I'm more convinced of Swanson maintaining what he is and adding to the lineup vs. Mateo.

That said, I've really enjoyed Mateo this year. There are worse things than having a multi-win, strong glove, highly athletic SS like Mateo is. If they want to run it back with him, I'm not going to cry about that.

I'm just not completely sure what I'm going to get from him, or more to the point I worry about the offense... so when there are 4 options available that should add to the lineup, I think they should grab one of them.

#93 mweb08

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:45 PM

Better than Swanson please.

#94 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:47 PM

And the guys waiting in the wing are a factor too. Ortiz and Westburg are performing at AAA. Ortiz in particular is a super strong glove. Its just a position we dont need to attack in FA. Especially not Swanson, who isnt much, if any better, than a league avg hitter. Again, if its one of the other 3 at least they are arguably the 3 best bats on the market.



#95 Mackus

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:48 PM

Henderson being ready to step in at SS makes gambling on Mateo for 2023 a more palatable option. With Urias as utility guy that can take over at 3B if that needed to happen.

My guess is that Mateo doesn't make it through 2023, but wouldn't hate going with him and seeing what happens as long as they do big stuff elsewhere.

#96 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:51 PM

Henderson being ready to step in at SS makes gambling on Mateo for 2023 a more palatable option. With Urias as utility guy that can take over at 3B if that needed to happen.

Or Henderson if they wanted to go that route. I just think its gonna be Ortiz should Mateo fail. Assuming Ortiz isnt packaged this offseason. I dont agree with Stoner's assessment that Oritz doesnt and  shouldnt play a factor.



#97 Mackus

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:53 PM


Or Henderson if they wanted to go that route. I just think its gonna be Ortiz should Mateo fail. Assuming Ortiz isnt packaged this offseason. I dont agree with Stoner's assessment that Oritz doesnt and shouldnt play a factor.

They shouldn't prevent you from adding a star. I wouldn't turn down any of the SS because of these guys.

If you wanna argue optimize with a different position that's fine, but that may not be the guy you can convince to come here. I'd get the best guys I can regardless of position, with the obvious exception of Catcher.

#98 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 08:05 PM

They shouldn't prevent you from adding a star. I wouldn't turn down any of the SS because of these guys.

If you wanna argue optimize with a different position that's fine, but that may not be the guy you can convince to come here. I'd eat the best guys I can regardless of position, with the obvious exception of Catcher.

Its funny you mention C because I dont expect this to be the popular opinion but Id rather spend the money towards Swanson on Wilson Contreras and let him and Adley split C and DH. 



#99 mweb08

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 08:08 PM

While I'm open to any position except catcher and center, I'd prioritize corner OF and 1B over SS.

Mateo is a solid option right now and there's a lot of talent that can step in if he falters as 2035 mentions. Plus, if Westburg for instance moves to the left side from 2B, there's Norby and Vavra (and possibly Urias) in the mix for 2B.

#100 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 08:22 PM

I'll gladly take him, too, but strongly prefer all of the others for what I expect everyone will cost. 10/$300M for Correa is better than 8/$200M for Swanson, IMO. 6/$100M for Swanson is no longer the pricetag. If it is, then sure, but I really doubt it.

If I was more confident that this season wasn't a career year I'd consider him more strongly. I'll listen to arguments for why it's not and he should be expected to hit closer to this moving forward.


6 $150 - $175 for Swanson.
He might be the best player in the group.




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