193 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

He is good to great in the speed and defense department. On pace to end up a 3 WAR player despite the bat lacking. Someone will pay something of value for that. May be best used as part of a package but arent talking crumbs here. I would bet he has more trade value than Santander this offseason. Maybe equal to the value you get for Trey at this deadline.

[Mackus]

I'd happily and quickly accept what I expect Trey and Santander to fetch this deadline for Mateo. I like him as a utility guy, assuming he can defend well enough at 2B and 3B, but I don't think he has any hope of being a regular we'd be happy with. I'm not dumping him or trading him for a Cashner or less package, but I'd take a long shot with a profile I like. I don't anticipate a trade.

[Nigel Tufnel]

31.6 is really fast.

 

Kevin Brown@kevinnbrown·

 

30 feet per second is considered "elite" sprint speed in Major League Baseball. Jorge Mateo went from 1st to 3rd on yesterday's pickoff attempt in *31.6* feet/second - his fastest sprint speed of the season.

[Mackus]

That's peak speed, not average right? Probably not too far different for only 180 feet (less the lead).

The guy is incredibly fast, and it's playing up this year as well. SB% has dipped a bit it looks like but 85% is still good.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

One complaint I heard was the Os have rebuilt for 3 or 4 years and have not found much of value considering the playing time they have to give to the waiver claims and small signings or trades. Scrap heap guys. With Lopez, Urias, and Mateo you now have 3 guys  who have value however you choose to go about getting that value. You can keep them or trade them. Not to mention some other guys in the past or who are currently on the team that have a chance to give you a little more value. Sulser, Voth, Khrebel, Baker, Perez

[Mackus]

I'd happily take an extra 15 wins a season since 2019 over finding these guys. And I'd still have a strong shot at having found them, especially Lopez who is the only one I think actually has much value. But still, even if I cede all of them, give me decent baseball over 50-win seasons and finding one good player over three years out of all the wreckage.

If this season is enjoyable, then you agree with me, because it's been successful in large part because of the performance from several guys who are likely not long-term pieces.

[mweb08]

I'd happily take an extra 15 wins a season since 2019 over finding these guys. And I'd still have a strong shot at having found them, especially Lopez who is the only one I think actually has much value. But still, even if I cede all of them, give me decent baseball over 50-win seasons and finding one good player over three years out of all the wreckage.

If this season is enjoyable, then you agree with me, because it's been successful in large part because of the performance from several guys who are likely not long-term pieces.

Plus finding others that provided value to future O's teams or in trades to get younger talent.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I'd happily take an extra 15 wins a season since 2019 over finding these guys. And I'd still have a strong shot at having found them, especially Lopez who is the only one I think actually has much value. But still, even if I cede all of them, give me decent baseball over 50-win seasons and finding one good player over three years out of all the wreckage.

If this season is enjoyable, then you agree with me, because it's been successful in large part because of the performance from several guys who are likely not long-term pieces.

Couldn't disagree more on both parts.

[mweb08]

It's interesting how the people that are on the opposite side of this argument from Mackus generally have a ton of confidence in Elias, I guess with the exception of this component of team building.

Trust in Elias unless it's to be given some money to bring in additional talent these past few offseasons.

Trust in Elias unless it's to identify which cheap guys to give a chance and which ones to try to upgrade upon.

He's amazing, but he wouldn't have hit on any of the many players that went on to have great seasons after signing cheap to middling short-term contracts even though the O's arguably had the most opportunity in this part of the market in all of MLB.

He's amazing, but if he tried to be even slightly competitive during this stretch, he would have missed out on Mullins, Lopez, Urias, and Mateo.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Im talking about the Jose Iglesias and Freddie Galvis's of the world. Ill take chances on former top100 like Mateo all day over them. This isnt Hanser Alberto and Renado Nunez type of talent you are taking a flyer on. I do like what we have done in the BP the last few years. Dont spend any money there. Acquire talented arms and sell them if they show any success. SP on smaller to mid level deals is the place we couldve and shouldve been more active but good luck getting them to come pitch in this park pre 2022 in this division.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

So lets look at Marcus Semien post 2020. I wouldve been fine giving him 20mil for the 2021 season to play here for a yr. It wouldve worked out. We couldve moved him and got something valuable in return. If he had failed it was just 20mil and the Os couldve afforded it. Have no problem with that approach but we cant totally discount that Elias is being allowed to bank money for the future. We also have to understand that there arent a lot of Marcus Semein post 2020 in FA. Most guys willing to take 1 yr deals or even 2 yr deals are more likely to be in the class of Iglesias or Galvis. Already said Ill take a chance on Mateo all day during a rebuild over older, limited upside guys. Its obviously not easy to pick out the 1-3 guys in an offseason that fit into that Marcus Semien category and convince them to sign here when we are clearly rebuilding and there is competition for their services.

[Mackus]

Im talking about the Jose Iglesias and Freddie Galvis's of the world. Ill take chances on former top100 like Mateo all day over them. This isnt Hanser Alberto and Renado Nunez type of talent you are taking a flyer on. I do like what we have done in the BP the last few years. Dont spend any money there. Acquire talented arms and sell them if they show any success. SP on smaller to mid level deals is the place we couldve and shouldve been more active but good luck getting them to come pitch in this park pre 2022 in this division.

We may disagree on Mateo's talent, but avoiding Albertos and Nunezes and the like is all I've asked for and wanted an actual bottom level MLB player instead. I might disagree that Mateo (and Urias) counts as an actual prospect or young guy with promise that is worth watching even if he fails, but I've certainly said all along that I think guys like that being given a role is fine. Disagreeing on if a certain guys qualifies isn't really a part of the larger point.

[BSLChrisStoner]

2 homers last night, OPS up to .657.

[FL O's Fan]

2 homers last night, OPS up to .657.

 

Wanted to talk about Mateo even before yesterday's performance. I really like the guy. I love his defense at short maybe better than any Oriole in my adult life. Now the bat is heating up a bit. I really don't think we should count him out. With his defense, he's not quite prime Andrelton Simmons, but if he can OPS near .650, you have to at least consider him a possible nugget, no? 

 

I know getting a FA SS would be sexy, but I honestly would take 2-3 WAR a year from Mateo batting #9 and maybe he can grow from there. 

[Mackus]

Very skeptical of the bat over the longer haul but can't argue with how he's hit the last month.  He's been great.  If he can improve the baseline so he's not a ~600 OPS guy prior to having his next good month, he's a solid regular.

 

Right now I want him as the utility guy.  Sign a SS, Henderson and Westburg at 3B and 2B.  Mateo can fill in all around the IF and in the OF and have utility as a pinch runner when he's not starting.  If he plays so well the rest of the way that he's got significant trade value, then we can deal him after we've signed a SS.

 

If we don't sign a SS (boo!), then he and Urias will battle for time.  I think you've gotta give Henderson a spot by May and Westburg possibly this year.  Henderson gets more leash than Westburg, but both get a lot.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Vavra also now in this mix, and Mayo can be by next June or so too (though, he's also a candidate to move to 1st / DH, despite his arm). 
I'm still feeling Vavra, and Mayo are part of a trade this off-season. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Norby will be in the mix before Mayo

[BSLChrisStoner]

Norby will be in the mix before Mayo

He's another that will be in the trade mix this Winter.

[Old Man]

Can you image the defense would be, with Manny on 3rd and Mateo on SS?

 

Whistles

[You Play to Win the Game]

Can you image the defense would be, with Manny on 3rd and Mateo on SS?

 

Whistles

Lol - I love a good whew whistle!